Age of Accountability

[damo1]

this is an old catholic teaching that has been accepted by a lot of catholics they even believe that some one can be rescued from hell by giving money to the parish priests i am an x catholic and this is what was taught to me that babies who are not saved and baptized are sent to hell or this place limbo

the child we lost in 1998 did not get the chance to see me or his mother or the chance to breath the very air we breath or even cry when a baby is born the first thing parents hear is their cry

our son had his cords wrapped around his throat he died in my first wifes womb we had to rush her to the hospital the nurse though was not very nice that attended my first wife she blamed my first wife and refused to be in the room and called for another nurse very insensative god showed my wife threw a vission she got that our son was wiith him she saw our son standing next to jesus she said she heard kegan say i love you mum and tell dad i love him to and to let go and not blame god

when we burried our son i had no such vission i was very angry and i was wondering weather our son would be sent to hel due to what i was taught i was realy strugling and i was asking god to spare the child and not send our child to hell

in 2003 god showed me where he tried to show me what he had shown my first wife i put a wal around me when i did the emmause walk on the saturday night god realy broke threw and finaly i was able to let go and i was told kegan is with me

babies do not go to hell

god is not that mean how can a new born be punished and how can a new born know from right to wrong when they have been in their mothers womb for 9 months do babies sin when they are born do they committ adultery murder are they gods enemies ?

babies depend on us for the first 12 months the child clings to the mother the mother feeds the child changes the childs nappies gets up at odd hours of the night to comfort the child

hear is a question that cant be answered when the child starts to grow does the child sin while its growing ?

also with people with disabilitys who have no arms or legs or cant see or hear or speak do you honestly think that god will send them to hell when he says he does not want no one to perish

the way i see it for my self with out stepping on any ones toes since this topic has come to the surface as its an old topic

while damo is alive god holds damo accountable for what he says and does if damo hurts anyone god sends his way if damo does not deal with his hidden sins he avoids to deal with god wil deal with damo

damo is responsible for what he does while he is alive either damo does it gods way or his way and when ever damo does it his way it gets damo into trouble

god sees everything damo does even when damo is in his own home away from the people in damos church who know him

damo knows god sees everything he does and damo knows god wil hold damo responsible if he abuses anyone in his care if he hurts any one that god sends into his path if damo lusts and damo does not deal with his lust god wil deal with damo if damo goes to churh on sunday and then does something thinking to him self god cant realy see what damo does god wil deal with him when damo stands before god god will bring everything to the surface and will deal with damo

honestly you should be asking this question do we listen to the doctrines that are taught to us do we accept the wishy washy gospel or counterfit gospel that is being preached and has been easly accepted or do we come before god and ask him to search us do we do an honest avaluation inventory or do we just listen to the doctrines that are being taught today by unstable men

i dont want to take that chance and easly accept a doctrinen that is going to cast his judgment onto me

damo needs to take heed to what the bible has to say and not to what mans revelations have to say

damo1

[Believer1997]

I think that Jesus loved little children and this verse always stays in my heart - My heart believes that all innocents - those who do not know or understand sin go to heaven... that may be wrong, but in my heart - I worship a Gracious & Merciful God and I believe He has made provisions for those innocent beings who do not know Him ... yet...

Matthew 19:14

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.

Now - I know that the above was mentioned in the Bible because Jesus was being thronged by people and his disciples were keeping people away when he said this about children. I do not believe Jesus ever uttered a word that was not extremely meaningful and full of wisdom...

Blessings.

[Guest Reborn11]

I am new here, my first post; and I'd like to give it a try. John 5:24 "whoeverhears my word and believed him who sent has eternal life." John 6:39 "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." John 3:3 "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." and He adds a few verses later, "no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and teh Spirit." And in John 14:23 "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him."

A very good question.....

[Smalcald]

Not believing there is any biblical support for an age of accountability does not mean you also believe that babies who die go to hell.

God is merciful and kind His grace saves us we cannot saver ourselves, we do not make a decision to follow Christ there is nothing in us that is good we are dead in trespasses and sins. We certainly can reject the mercy and grace offered to us by Christ we can run away from faith we do have that power, but our faith itself our salvation itself is a gift not something that we decide on, we have nothing to do with it.

[JCISGD]

In the end Gods wisdom is seen in all that He does, and His justice is not repungent to the sensibilities that He designed us to have. While we like Job may not understand a present mystery, we can be sure that morally abhorrent doctrine such as innocent children going to eternal hell, is not supported by scripture or consistent with what we know of Gods holiness.

Children born innocent has nothing to do with Catholic inventions, nor can it be only those of Christian parentage as this too is abhorrent to our natural sense of justice. We will not bow the knee to God just because He exists, but because we will all see His beauty and acknowledge all His ways to be just.

But this is an impossibility if we are asked to violate our sense of justice which God Himself endowed us with. The many wild and unjust teachings found among the churches is the leading cause why many unbelievers think God is a tyrannt or unworthy, but if Christians would desist in their error and bais and preach sound doctrine the Holy Spirit would use us to bring many rebels to Christ.

[-michael-]

Deu 1:39 And your little ones, who you said would be a prey, and your sons who in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in there. And I will give it to them, and they shall possess it.

How does this fit in?

[Guest Butero]

In the end Gods wisdom is seen in all that He does, and His justice is not repungent to the sensibilities that He designed us to have. While we like Job may not understand a present mystery, we can be sure that morally abhorrent doctrine such as innocent children going to eternal hell, is not supported by scripture or consistent with what we know of Gods holiness.

I just supported the idea with scripture. What scripture do you bring to the table to show me wrong?

Children born innocent has nothing to do with Catholic inventions, nor can it be only those of Christian parentage as this too is abhorrent to our natural sense of justice. We will not bow the knee to God just because He exists, but because we will all see His beauty and acknowledge all His ways to be just.

I am not Catholic, and this is not a Catholic doctrine. And yes, some of us will bow the knee to God just because he exists. You don't speak for everyone.

But this is an impossibility if we are asked to violate our sense of justice which God Himself endowed us with. The many wild and unjust teachings found among the churches is the leading cause why many unbelievers think God is a tyrannt or unworthy, but if Christians would desist in their error and bais and preach sound doctrine the Holy Spirit would use us to bring many rebels to Christ.

In order to have sound doctrine, you must first have a scriptural basis for it. You haven't provided one scripture to back up anything you are saying. I did. Again, you don't speak for everyone, and my sense of justice and yours are not the same, just as your sense of justice would be completely contrary to the Calvanist. They are certainly not in line with Catholics.

Things are not always fair. Where you are born makes a great deal of difference in your life. For instance, some are blessed to be born in America with freedom, while others are born in oppression in places like China. Some are born in areas where they have the gospel preached and are easily able to get saved, while others never hear the gospel and are lost for eternity because of ignorance. Does that seem fair to your delicate sense of justice? I don't care if you agree with me or not, but if you are going to go off with your righteous indignation, you need to provide scripture to back yourself up. This kind of reasoning may be good enough for some, but you will have to bring forth scriptural evidence to get anywhere with me.

By the way, I am more concerned with doctrinal truth than the effect my beliefs will have on unbelievers.

[Guest Butero]

Deu 1:39 And your little ones, who you said would be a prey, and your sons who in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in there. And I will give it to them, and they shall possess it.

How does this fit in?

This scripture has more to do with the children of Israel's lack of faith. They didn't believe God would be able to bring them into the land of Canaan, so they murmered accusations against God and believed they and their children would be killed by the people that possessed the land. God decided to let the unbelievers die in the wilderness and he allowed their children to take possession. It is a valid verse, because it does show that God had a cut off age, but in this case, it was 20 years old. In order for this to be conclusive, you would have to think the age of accountablility was 20. Is that possible? Yes, but not likely. In addition, these were the children of Israel, as opposed to the children of the heathen. As such, it still doesn't provide proof whether or not the children of the unsaved go to heaven if they die. What happened to the children of the people in Jericho for instance?

Even though I don't think this really answers if there is an "age of accountablility" for all, I do think the scripture is valid for this discussion. But again, if this is to be used as proof there is an "age of accountability" the age would be 20, and we would still have questions over whether that same age applies to children of unbelievers?

[JCISGD]

In the end Gods wisdom is seen in all that He does, and His justice is not repungent to the sensibilities that He designed us to have. While we like Job may not understand a present mystery, we can be sure that morally abhorrent doctrine such as innocent children going to eternal hell, is not supported by scripture or consistent with what we know of Gods holiness.

I just supported the idea with scripture. What scripture do you bring to the table to show me wrong?

Children born innocent has nothing to do with Catholic inventions, nor can it be only those of Christian parentage as this too is abhorrent to our natural sense of justice. We will not bow the knee to God just because He exists, but because we will all see His beauty and acknowledge all His ways to be just.

I am not Catholic, and this is not a Catholic doctrine. And yes, some of us will bow the knee to God just because he exists. You don't speak for everyone.

But this is an impossibility if we are asked to violate our sense of justice which God Himself endowed us with. The many wild and unjust teachings found among the churches is the leading cause why many unbelievers think God is a tyrannt or unworthy, but if Christians would desist in their error and bais and preach sound doctrine the Holy Spirit would use us to bring many rebels to Christ.

In order to have sound doctrine, you must first have a scriptural basis for it. You haven't provided one scripture to back up anything you are saying. I did. Again, you don't speak for everyone, and my sense of justice and yours are not the same, just as your sense of justice would be completely contrary to the Calvanist. They are certainly not in line with Catholics.

Things are not always fair. Where you are born makes a great deal of difference in your life. For instance, some are blessed to be born in America with freedom, while others are born in oppression in places like China. Some are born in areas where they have the gospel preached and are easily able to get saved, while others never hear the gospel and are lost for eternity because of ignorance. Does that seem fair to your delicate sense of justice? I don't care if you agree with me or not, but if you are going to go off with your righteous indignation, you need to provide scripture to back yourself up. This kind of reasoning may be good enough for some, but you will have to bring forth scriptural evidence to get anywhere with me.

By the way, I am more concerned with doctrinal truth than the effect my beliefs will have on unbelievers.

Hi Butero, my post was not meant as opposition to yours. I think you misread me when you think i am speaking for all. What i am putting forth is not supported or refuted in scripture as it is based on phycology and not theology.

But think about this, if our sense of justice cannot be reasoned with and is purely subjective then God would be unable to convict us of our sin. That is why i say that Gods dealings with us are not repungent to our sense of justice.

I did use the example of Job to qualify my position, that we may not think something fair or just upon our iniatal reaction, but in the light of Gods presense all will and do bow the knee.

My position was not that Gods presense does not cause us to bow in worship and adoration, but that all will agree that His ways are right and just, not because He says so ,but because they are.

Im sorry but i dont see where i was "going off in righteous indignation" as you put it, but if you dont care about the opinion of others then i am not about to care about yours.