Homosexuality and evolution

[nebula]

gee Neb, I thought I did. In my first response I stated that would eventually become a severe minority( as they are today) or become extinct.

Sorry, I meant not to diss you. I was looking at the "science-minded" crowd.

[Hunterpoet]

Hunter that sounds like a really scary movie.... ugh. I don't think homosexuality and evolution have anything to do with each other - I just think that we are exposed to it more and more than ever because people are coming .. out.... of wherever they've been. I do not think the survival of the species is in danger...

On a more serious note. Homosexual behavior is a choice. And yeah, it would make a great scary sick movie....wonder why the folks in Hollywood have not put this into production yet

If homosexual behaviour is a choice, does that mean heterosexual behaviour is a also choice? It's the behaviour and not the inclination that is judged, right? I wil be truthful and say that I do experience brief flashes of homosexual ideation from time to time, but not nearly enough to cast doubt on my heterosexuality. I know for certain that I am heterosexual.

How about you know for certain that you are a human being and that you enjoy heterosexual relationships more than homosexual...and because you are courageous enough to admit to some ideation, it's pretty clear that you made a choice.

So what we have to understand is why you chose one over the other. IMO, it has nothing to do with genetics, but influence early on in life, even before we are aware of it. Everybody understands this, and is why most folks fiercely object to any type introduction to this behavior early on, except the homosexuals of course.

If sexual preference were merely dependent upon genetics there would be no need for the word hedonism.

[Gauntlet]

I am not sure why I turned out hetero instead of homo, but I am glad for it. Sometimes I get flashes of violent ideation, but I never act on those either. I chalk it up to the enemy trying to plant the seeds of corruption in me. How many times has the prince of darkness almost destroyed me from within? I've lost count. How many times has Lord saved me from myself? Seven times seven times ... hallelujah!

[Hunterpoet]

I am confused by the phrase "the animal world in general" since there is no natural predisposition for homosexuality in the "animal world in general."

Then you aren't well acquainted with the natural world. Have you never seen a dog attempt to copulate with another male dog, or a chair or someones leg? There are numerous examples in the animal kingdom of homosexual acts, what you generally don't find is exclusively homosexual populations.

That is pure baloney. I have a cousin who is a zoologist and has had to dispell that myth a number of times. The dogs are not attempting to copulate. It is an attempt to assert domination, an attempt to establish itself as a the alpha male.

Exactly, it is still an act of a sexual nature with a member of the same gender, thus by definition is an homosexual act.

Or are you saying that if a man has sex with another man but isn't actually trying to get him pregnant then he isn't a homosexual?

No it is not an act of sexual nature. The dog is not attempting to have sex with the other dog. You are really stretching it. Dogs will try to climb the back of another dog, both from behind and in some rare cases from the side. It is an attempt to get the other male to submit to its rank. In some cases, a fight will ensue. You are completely misreading it. Try using some common sense.

It is no different than why dogs try to lick your face. It is not an act of love, but of domination. Two dogs will laying together side by side in the backyar and one dog will have its paw on the back or the neck of the other dog. It is an attempt to express dominance and rank in the pack. It is also why your dog always tries to walk ahead of you when you take it out for a stroll. It is establishing alpha status.

It doesn't matter whether the intent is love or domination, if the alpha ejaculates, it is a sexual act. Now in general, as I have already stated, animals generally aren't exclusively homosexual in that most dogs or any other animal will usually copulate with a member of the opposite gender if the opportunity presents.

LaRue in his 25 year study of the north american white tail deer noted that bucks who could not find a mate would masturbate, this only occurred during the rut. His explanation for this was that the buck needed to release built up testosterone. Knowing that humans do not need to do this would suggest that animals are merely responding to hormonal influences with no ability to over ride them.

[forrestkc]

Once AGAIN -

The question is over whether or not homosexuality will promote or defeat the survival of the species.

HOW DIFFICULT IS THIS QUESTION??!!!

(and yes I am shouting....)

It's a leading question, thats the problem. Here is your answer again though:

If homosexuality is genetic, and thus homosexually inclined members of a species reproduced much less often then other members of that species, then the result would be homosexuality being limited perpetually to a small percentage of the species over all population. I would think that sexual frigidity would have a far stronger impact on whether that species thrived or not.

[Gauntlet]

Once AGAIN -

The question is over whether or not homosexuality will promote or defeat the survival of the species.

HOW DIFFICULT IS THIS QUESTION??!!!

(and yes I am shouting....)

No need to shout, old man.

If a higher percentage of the human race were non-breeding practising homosexuals, then our extinction would be assured. Since the "breeder" heterosexual percentage of the population more than offsets the homosexual element due to the overwhelming popularity of hetero sex, we have nothing to worry about in terms of survival as a species. Unless homosex somehow rapidly and aggressively overtook heterosex to the point of reversal ...

[Gauntlet]

An afterthought:

Is it that homosexual men can't or won't procreate with females? I've heard of homos having hetero sex just to make babies. But why/how, if they are atttracted to the same-sex only?

[OneLight]

Love to join in on this discussion, but I am not scientific at all, and can find nothing statically on the web about it.

[MorningGlory]

That is pure baloney. I have a cousin who is a zoologist and has had to dispell that myth a number of times. The dogs are not attempting to copulate. It is an attempt to assert domination, an attempt to establish itself as a the alpha male.

That is what I have read also. There are no homosexual animals.

You could try Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity by Bruce Bagemihl in which around 500 different species are documented as having homosexual and/or bisexual relations. Or you could visit the New York Aquarium if you're ever in the area and ask about their "gay penguins".

I agree that this does occur among animals but it's based on the 'gay for the stay' behavior seen in prison inmates (I heard this explained in some documentary I watched). In other words, it's opportunistic. As soon as a female shows up (never heard of female animals exhibiting homosexual traits, although they may) they revert to instinctive behavior, as do most inmates. Homosexuality would be counterintuitive for an animal since it doesn't ensure the survival of the species. For man, homosexuality is an abomination, we all know this. Humans are the only beings satan has sought to deceive and corrupt and there's a good reason for this; we are the only beings with souls.

[MorningGlory]

An afterthought:

Is it that homosexual men can't or won't procreate with females? I've heard of homos having hetero sex just to make babies. But why/how, if they are atttracted to the same-sex only?

Human males are capable whether they are attracted to the partner or not; I will refer you to the many, many men who pick up hookers. Said hooker doesn't need to be attractive or interesting nor does the man need to feel any attraction to her. Go figure.