Alcohol

[Axxman]

I am so disturbed by the portrayal of Christians as rigid, intolerant, judgemental loudmouths who follow a list of do's and don'ts. This is a huge problem we need to overcome.

The above is the root of my frustration and Servant, I do believe your heart is in the right place, but Christians have a HUGE marketing problem to overcome. We really, really do and I want to do what I can to change non believers views of Christians. I'll have a beer, I'll have fun, I'll make fun of myself and let them know full well I aint perfect and I don't think I am. But I have self-control, morals, values, integrity and I have God and HE gives me strength and peace in times of turmoil. I don't want people to equate my relationship with God with some kind of list of rules like the Muslims have. I want to differentiate myself from all of that. Sorry if I come on too strong sometimes.

"Look at me...I'm a Christian but I can still throw a few back and be cool." Is that the 'new' evangelism I've been hearing about?

You make arguments like "What was Jesus drinking?" Like YOU KNOW what was in Jesus' cup anymore than the pharisee's who made the baseless accusation did...lol. John didn't eat or drink ANY grape products...Jesus did...big deal. You sound like the pharisee's did in Jesus day trying desperately to link Jesus with a cup of alcoholic beverages. Thats all it was...a desperate attempt by a bunch of men acting like children calling out any stupid thing they could hoping something would stick. Well it stuck with you...so you have your excuse. Its the same with the Wedding...you have NO IDEA what they were drinking but you speak with so much authority so that you can have your excuse. You don't want Jesus to make 150 gallons of alcohol for a bunch of drunk partiers, so you bend the rules and your understanding based on nothing but thin air...and viola...suddenly nobody was drunk and the alcohol is some kind of wine cooler...and you have your excuse.

You don't need a biblical excuse to drink alcohol. If you honestly in your heart believe that God is using you (and based on your own words it seems he does) you don't need to prove what Jesus or John drank. You don't need Jesus to make 150 gallons of alcohol. Nobody has to pick a side on new wine vs. aged wine vs. fruit of the vine.

I've said repeatedly...I don't care if anyone honesly believes that God condones alcohol in their life. Thats between them and God. But it is futile to try and justify it by using God's word as an excuse. God didn't come out and outright condemn MANY things that NONE of us would dream of doing...so silence isn't always an approval (or a condemnation.) To me...it becomes offensive when people NEED Jesus to become the Anheiser Busch of Ancient Israel and start providing massive amounts of alcohol to partiers...or when they sit on the wall with Pharisee's in a desperate attempt to prove that Jesus is a winebibber. If a person has to go there...i can't help but wonder about their true motivations.

[Guest LadyC]

Man...........

You say.......

"You sidestepped the issue, so I will ask again.

Are those who participate in communion, sinning?"

First I would like you to address the context of Proverbs 23:31" Do not look on the wine when it is red swirls in the cup"

Is this not a commandment not to even look upon alcoholic wine? (ie avoid it)

Why are you avoiding the question?

A simple yes or no.

ya know, if i looked into my wine glass and saw it swirling, i think i'd realize i'd had too much to drink. now first of all, the book of proverbs is a book full of wisdom, not commandments. which indicates to me that my sorta-tongue-in-cheek comment about the swirling may not be too far off base. and especially since nothing else in scripture can really even be misconstrued as a command to not touch alcohol.

[kat8585]

You don't need a biblical excuse to drink alcohol. If you honestly in your heart believe that God is using you (and based on your own words it seems he does) you don't need to prove what Jesus or John drank. You don't need Jesus to make 150 gallons of alcohol. Nobody has to pick a side on new wine vs. aged wine vs. fruit of the vine.

I've said repeatedly...I don't care if anyone honesly believes that God condones alcohol in their life. Thats between them and God. But it is futile to try and justify it by using God's word as an excuse. God didn't come out and outright condemn MANY things that NONE of us would dream of doing...so silence isn't always an approval (or a condemnation.) To me...it becomes offensive when people NEED Jesus to become the Anheiser Busch of Ancient Israel and start providing massive amounts of alcohol to partiers...or when they sit on the wall with Pharisee's in a desperate attempt to prove that Jesus is a winebibber. If a person has to go there...i can't help but wonder about their true motivations.

I've still not seen a good reason for drinking it.

[Guest LadyC]

good reasons....

note, these are for light to moderate drinkers... those who drink heavily cancel out any benefits for obvious reasons.

• lowers the risk of diabetes
  
• lowers bad cholesterol levels
  
• lowers risk of heart disease and/or heart attack
  
• lowers risk of strokes
  
• lowers risk of gallstones
  

info provided by mayoclinic. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol/SC00024

[Believer1997]

There have been some conflicting studies on alcohol consumption - I have heard one study that claimed women who consume as few as 3 drinks a week have a higher incidence of breast cancer. That is pretty alarming - to me anyway...

[Shiloh62]

I think that drinking for a celebration in moderation is ok. Like how some catholic churches uses real wine for communion. Or using it for a wedding would be good. I'm not much of a drinker but I know that if I do get my first drink I think it should be because of a formal celebration. Then again some countries have wine as a dialy meal beverage not necessarily as somthing to satisfy taste. I think it depends on the motive for drinking.

I'm actually the opposite. If I get my first drink, I might not be able to exercise the necesarry disiplie needed to avoid finishing the whole 6 pack, so I will forbid myself to drink,though I won't tell others they can't. They must make their own decisions.

[Guest LadyC]

There have been some conflicting studies on alcohol consumption - I have heard one study that claimed women who consume as few as 3 drinks a week have a higher incidence of breast cancer. That is pretty alarming - to me anyway...

yep, i've heard that as well...

it's all about using good judgment ya know? i mean if a person has a family medical history of heart disease but NO medical history of breast cancer, then the benefits of having a glass of wine or a beer with dinner might be a good thing to consider... whereas the person with a family history of breast cancer would be wiser to find some other method of dealing with any coronary risks they may have.

[Believer1997]

There have been some conflicting studies on alcohol consumption - I have heard one study that claimed women who consume as few as 3 drinks a week have a higher incidence of breast cancer. That is pretty alarming - to me anyway...

yep, i've heard that as well...

it's all about using good judgment ya know? i mean if a person has a family medical history of heart disease but NO medical history of breast cancer, then the benefits of having a glass of wine or a beer with dinner might be a good thing to consider... whereas the person with a family history of breast cancer would be wiser to find some other method of dealing with any coronary risks they may have.

I wish that I could drink a glass of red wine... Unfortunately, I am one of those people (some say don't exist) that gets a slammer of an awful headache if I drink any (and I mean any) red wine... I've a close friend who is a cardiologist who says that in moderation - it is good for you ... but no can do... something about sulfates...

[pokemaughan]

I've still not seen a good reason for drinking it.

we all have our reasons for doing what we do. for some people there may not be a good reason for drinking. but i've seen plenty of good reasons why we shouldn't say the Bible says not to drink!

Yes- intent is far more important than action, I think.

There's a difference between serving at a church function to love the Lord, and serving at a church function to look for women.

[Guest LadyC]

what i found interesting is that the information i found at mayo clinic and other sites didn't indicate any particular alcoholic beverage as being any better or worse... it was simply the consumption level. so while you may not be able to tolerate a glass of red wine, you could presumably get the same benefits from having a bottle of beer, or a mixed drink.

wine doesn't give me headaches... the only thing that gives me headaches is tequila, which is one of the reasons i avoid margaritas. and i don't mean hangover headaches (i've never had a hangover in my life), i mean as soon as i start drinking it i get major headaches. but wine, it's just yuck. never found one that tasted good. i hate beer, too.

a glass of chambord mixed with pineapple juice, now that tastes wonderful. (chambord is a liqueur, and has an extremely low alcohol content.) i also enjoy a daquiri once in a while. but i don't imagine i drink "moderately enough" to garner any health benefits from it.