Too much of the world ...

[OneLight]

For some time, I have noticed that more then not, threads are all about the world and its affairs. I really don't see much in the way of salvation these days nor do I see solid bible discussion. What I have noticed are debates with nonbelievers, but for some reason, we are not reaching them. Are they more prepared to defend their ways then we are ours? I am guilty of not being as prepared as I should be as a child of God. For this reason, I would like to encourage us all to get back to His reason why we are here, and that is to bring the Gospel to the world, not the world to the Christians.

Engaging nonbelievers and challenging their misconceptions about God, the Bible and Christianity is part of sharing the gospel. Part of the problem we have is that there are many misunderstandings that exist and quite often, they never get satisfactorily addressed. Part of that involves addressing the worldy issues and concerns that are part and parcel of those misunderstandings.

I don't see how challenging and bringing more understanding of our faith to unbelievers qualifies as being worldly.

Yes, it is part of the gospel. That is what I am trying to encourage everyone to do. It is when we do not bring our conversations around to Christ that I am talking about. I never said that "challenging and bringing more understanding of our faith to unbelievers qualifies as being worldly."

[RebekahDavid]

blessings,

i do think it is good to challenge people to think as long as we are pointing to the Lord and His truth and doing it with love in the appropriate forums in the appropriate way but .......

there is a difference between challenging people and running them over with a truck.

debating other brothers and sisters in the Lord in prayer or praise or even the study forums seems to me to be using that truck. i also have wondered at times about the debates between believers when they post in the outer courts. how are these things edifying to the Lord? what is that showing the people who are seeking?

there are forums for debates and controversial issues etc when they spill into other areas in my opinion the focus is taken off the Lord.

there is also a difference in our motives which should be prayed about before we respond to a post. i find the more that i pray for posts and the posters and seek God's will the less i have to post and the less i have to apologize to the Lord or other posters for something i posted as a knee jerk emotional reaction

QUOTE (yod @ May 16 2009, 04:40 PM)

The only time I have a problem with anger (which is what I think you are referring to as "wordly") is when I'm:

1. very tired and posting after midnight

2. very busy and don't have time to be patient.

3. dealing with a bigot or liar

4. take offense whether it was intended or not

Here is the answer:

1 Corinthians 13

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

adding my Amen to Yod's post

love your sister in Christ,

Rebekah David

[georgedrw81]

For the last 2 years stopped looking at eartlhly matters.Credit crunch,joblessness,stock market,job yes they are fun or distraction.I look at this forum and see

posting of scriptures and testimonies.That makes my day since joining.Thanking God and Jesus and then there is lift off for another wonderfull day.

Blessings

[Shiloh62]

My situation is like a lot of people here...and yet unlike most who are christians. I'm always involved in ministry type "stuff" so coming here to talk about other things is my only release from the religious world. This discussion board is the only hobby I can sustain regularly. How sad is that?

But when I look at the topics that engage me the most, it is usually some worldly subject as it relates to righteousness of the Lord. Like politics. Apart from ithat subject usually being about somebody's selfish ambition, political leaders and situations are what most of the Tenach (Old Testament) stories are about, it seems. One wicked king fighting another.....etc.

I like to say that I stumble into more blessing by being totally oblivious than most people could ever plan for. I'm not afraid of being in worldly places because where else would the worldly be? How would I find them if I'm always doing the "spiritual" thing? If they came to church, would we even have time for an honest conversation there?

I find that most of my worldly friends are willing to open up with time. If I don't force the "religious" issue they will talk when they are ready because I'm the only "religious" person they know. When disasters strike, they don't call their drinking buddies.

So I stopped compartmentalizing secular and sacred a long time ago. There is only "how should I provoke or respond?" wherever I am. My job is to try and be as faithful as possible no matter the situation or place.

It may even look worldly to someone else. I don't care. There is only one human I have to please (my wife) and that seems to please my King.

Thats not sad at all,yod. This is a great hobby,and it keeps us busy,and away from less productive hobbies, and too we learn something,and.... we keep better track of current events. All good.

[Shiloh62]

For the last 2 years stopped looking at eartlhly matters.Credit crunch,joblessness,stock market,job yes they are fun or distraction.I look at this forum and see

posting of scriptures and testimonies.That makes my day since joining.Thanking God and Jesus and then there is lift off for another wonderfull day.

Blessings

Amen- and to you also, my brother!

[Shiloh62]

I do know that God's Word tells us that some will reject the Truth and some will accept.

But maybe we aren't getting through to believers because many Christians have accepted ways of the world to blend in instead of really caring about what God has to say about things? Maybe we are trying too hard to cater our discussions to meet their logic, a hidden agenda? Rather than using the Word of God as a weapon? Meaning, we are trying to use our own weapons?

Maybe because too many Christians believe it is their mission to convert and convict rather than the fact that we are supposed to merely share the Gospel, live by example and leave it to the Holy Spirit to convict and convert?

I'm just speaking from my own personal experience while I was still sitting on the fence about God...

I just saw something while reading this post. How many Christian churches exist out there that neither teach the word or share the gospel? I've seen many churches that more accurately resemble a social club, or singles club.

[Gauntlet]

I for one could do with less political debate on WB. There are other message boards that deal exclusively in the political arguments and agendas of the day. But on Worthy, it has a certain crassness to it. Too much worldly discussion is bad for any Christian website.

[Guest yod]

Well I think that what happens to Israel is a VERY spiritual discussion but it involves the politics and politicians of the world.

Since this is His creation, any discussions about rulers and ruling seems to be as biblical as any other discussion on baptism...but a lot less hostile.

I find that theological debates can be contentious because everyone thinks they are a teacher...and too much teaching in the church for the last 2,000 years has been done in a "greek" spirit and horribly bad interpretations have come through seminaries for centuries now. It takes a long time and a lot of patience to undo the junk of traditions before we can discuss the truth of God's pure Word. I have little patience for it anymore.

Not to mention all the anti-semitism that has been institutionalized into the church since the early church "fathers"

So I come here to discuss what God is doing in the world with my friends. Not really here to reach the lost though I certainly like it when the opportunity arises.

[traveller]

Well I think that what happens to Israel is a VERY spiritual discussion but it involves the politics and politicians of the world.

Since this is His creation, any discussions about rulers and ruling seems to be as biblical as any other discussion on baptism...but a lot less hostile.

I find that theological debates can be contentious because everyone thinks they are a teacher...and too much teaching in the church for the last 2,000 years has been done in a "greek" spirit and horribly bad interpretations have come through seminaries for centuries now. It takes a long time and a lot of patience to undo the junk of traditions before we can discuss the truth of God's pure Word. I have little patience for it anymore.

Not to mention all the anti-semitism that has been institutionalized into the church since the early church "fathers"

So I come here to discuss what God is doing in the world with my friends. Not really here to reach the lost though I certainly like it when the opportunity arises.

This is true brother, concerning Israel, and I don't think anyone wants this aspect of the board to stop. At least I sure don't. We have to look to Israel and too many don't understand that.

You know - people are gifted in different ways. Many here are blessed to have deep insights in various leanings. I think this place is truly blessed with a wide assortment of high caliber servants of God. Really I feel that way. I'm humbled to be able to read y'alls posts.

I'm jsut saying there is room for teaching too. We still have young members that need solid footing. We have seasoned members that need deeper truths. We need it all.

[OneLight]

For some time, I have noticed that more then not, threads are all about the world and its affairs. I really don't see much in the way of salvation these days nor do I see solid bible discussion. What I have noticed are debates with nonbelievers, but for some reason, we are not reaching them. Are they more prepared to defend their ways then we are ours? I am guilty of not being as prepared as I should be as a child of God. For this reason, I would like to encourage us all to get back to His reason why we are here, and that is to bring the Gospel to the world, not the world to the Christians.

Before I respond to this comment, I want to say that Ovedya made some very good points in his post, and I am not ignoring them. At the same time, I did want to address this comment by itself, because it seems to be taking on 3 separate issues.

1 There are more threads talking about the world and it's affairs than the way of salvation and Bible discussion. The message board is divided up into sections where we discuss various topics. I think this has more to do with the sections you spend your time in than it does a real problem. If you want to discuss the Bible, there is a section dealing with doctrine, one for prophecy, and even another for Bible study. There is nothing to prevent you from starting a thread on any Biblical topic you desire. I am just not sure this is a real problem.

In and of itself, it is not a real problem. The point that I am trying to bring to light is the unbalanced number between the two. Having such an unbalance, I started to wonder what we are feeding ourselves. Scripture tells us to meditate on things that are true, noble, just, pure, lovely, of good report, virtue and praiseworthy.^{Philippians 4:8} We are also instructed to "be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another in the fear of God".^{Ephesians 5:18-21} When we spend so much time in the world, focusing on the world and not bringing it all back around to point to God in these issues, we fail to include God where He needs to be included, creating a danger of feeding our spirits with the wrong food. I am not trying to say that we need to bury our heads in the spiritual sand and not be involved, what I am saying I see no balance in our diet of subjects.

2. There are a lot of debates with nonbelievers, but we are not able to reach them. Are they more prepared to defend their ways than we are? I have read a lot of these debates in the past, and while the nonbelievers have spent a great deal of time learning to be skeptics and atheists, I think the Christians here at WB have more than held their own. While you may not see a lot of atheists becoming Christians, at the same time, how many Christians have been persuaded to become atheists? You basically have a stalemate situation arising. That is one reason I don't go over to the outer court much. It seems to be a waste of time.

Thank you for highlighting my point. There should be no "stalemate". To settle for this is the same as the servant that was given one talent and hid it in fear. Gods word does not return to Him void. The Holy Spirit convicts through the words He gives us to bring to others. We have been instructed by CHrist in these words. "Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."^{Matthew 5:15-17}

If there is a problem, it is not lack of preparation on our part, as much as perhaps a lack of prayer. If God doesn't prepare the unbeliever's heart to receive our witness, it will go in one ear and out the other. There is a song by the Steeles called "I Got Up And Went." What the song is saying is that when the preacher preached and the choir sang, this sinner remained in his seat. It was only when the Spirit of God spoke to his heart and bid him come that he went to the alter. Prayer may be the missing element, and it is the thing most sorely lacking in the church. I know a pretty fair bit about scripture, having read the Bible many times over, but I admit to not spending as much time in prayer as I should. Then there is fasting, which has become almost non-existent in the church. This may not be the only issue, but perhaps if we prayed and fasted that God would prepare the heart of unbelievers before we got into debates with them, we would see more results?

Prayer and fasting are both essential elements that need to be exercised more then they have been. You are correct that it is the Holy Spirit that convicts and move us. We read; "However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand."^{Acts 4:4} The reason; "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."^{Hebrews 4:12} How is this done; "How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?"^{Romans 10:14}

Yes, we each have a calling. Some pray, some fast, some bring the word, some encourage, some teach, and others fulfill their part, but we all have to do our part and work together. How far in our journey would we go if our feet decided to not so it's job? How well would we stay on course if the eyes stopped seeing?

3. Then there is the admonition to take the gospel to the world, rather than the world to the Christians. In other words, we are not the separated, sanctified people we should be. I can't argue with that. Whether we are talking about getting caught up in the cultural corruption, looking like the world, acting like the world, etc., or falling into sinful habits like the world, most of us are guilty to one extent or another. If you start naming specific things, be prepared to be attacked by fellow Christians as being a legalist. That is just the way it is. Individuals will have to make up their minds how close or how far away from Jesus they wish to follow.

Anyway, thanks for a thought provoking thread.

I am only trying to get people to look within themselves and examine their hearts, their direction and their dedication to the one who gave His all for us. I am not led to battle each case here or judge each worldly idea, but to encourage each of us to look at Him and ask Him if we are doing what He has called us to do, and are not wasting the precious little time that is left before the harvest is taken in. In prays, seek His guidance. Allow the Holy Spirit to direct each of us in our walk, obeying His calling for us in our lives. We are His people, to do His work. Are we being good stewards with our time?