t.v. seduction, harry potter, etc....

[OneLight]

Problem is, the bible doesn't follow Jesus' every step, every day of His life. How do we know that Jesus didn't attend an entertainment event?

He would not go to a harry potter movie belive you me!!!

Yeah...and he wouldn't be caught dead hanging out with thieves either. He wouldn't shack up with friends that were extortionists, and loan sharks. He certainly wouldn't be caught spending time with a prostitute. And he probably wouldn't make 150 gallons of alcohol for a party.

Seems to me that everytime somebody said "Jesus wouldn't do that"...there He was.

He would not have to go to where they were dealing in sin at the moment, but would wait until afterward. He knew the hearts and lives of everyone.

[nebula]

Wicca, and witchcraft as we know it, didn't even exist when CS Lewis wrote about Narnia.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.....

I am sure about it. In 1949 when Narnia was published Wicca and witchcraft was a secret underground belief. It wasn't until 1954 when Gerald Gardner went public with Wicca. Even still it was considered a secret and certainly not popular.

Ah - but it did exist "as we know it." Being "secret" does not negate that.

The difference between the attitudes in our culture now, and in 1949, towards witchcraft in general is night and day.

Before Sept. 11, 2001, American society didn't give much thought or regard to Islam. Would a book mixing Christian principles with Islam practices before 2001 be less of a problem than one written now?

(FYI - just for your perspective on my arguments here, note that I'm a sci-fi/fantasy fan.)

[nebula]

There is a Christian message behind the book and it is quite obvious to those who are "Grounded in the Word of God" and in literature.

Christian messages can be found in lots of things. Whether you see it or not depends on whether one looks for it.

The question, though, is are the non-Christians seeing this?

Granted, quite a few of them were uptight about her use of Scripture in the last book.

[nebula]

Thanks for sharing, Manie.

So, from having been a Wiccan, how do you regard this debate?

[Fez]

Amen Manie

[Guest man]

There is a Christian message behind the book and it is quite obvious to those who are "Grounded in the Word of God" and in literature.

Christian messages can be found in lots of things. Whether you see it or not depends on whether one looks for it.

The question, though, is are the non-Christians seeing this?

Granted, quite a few of them were uptight about her use of Scripture in the last book.

Are they seeing it in The Chronicles of Narnia?

[Axxman]

Ah - but it did exist "as we know it." Being "secret" does not negate that.

Semantics. The fact remains that when CS Lewis wrote his books being a witch (or wiccan) was not the second fastest growing religion in the US. The fascination with witchcraft did not exist when Narnia was penned in 1949...and wicca was certainly not a religion, or in existence, "as we know it" at that time. It wasn't until 5-10 years after Narnia that wicca came out publicly in a big way and started attracting people to its philosophies.

Also your 9/11 and Islam example are off mark. A more proper example would be going back to the year 648 and having an author use Islamic references in a fairy tale...then 5-10 years later find out that Islam is becoming mainstream....then 60 years after that its this evil religion. Then after he dies, people can sit back and make accusations about how evil his fairy tale was because it had Islamic references in it.

CS Lewis nearly scrapped the whole idea of Narnia because of the criticism he got for using the "Father Christmas" character...I can only imagine how he would feel if he knew that Christians were referring to him as a gateway drug to witchcraft.

[Massorite]

Wicca, and witchcraft as we know it, didn't even exist when CS Lewis wrote about Narnia.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.....

I am sure about it. In 1949 when Narnia was published Wicca and witchcraft was a secret underground belief. It wasn't until 1954 when Gerald Gardner went public with Wicca. Even still it was considered a secret and certainly not popular. The difference between the attitudes in our culture now, and in 1949, toward witchcraft in general is night and day.

Actually both witchcraft and Wicca are spoken of in the old testament many times. Burning incense under trees or in or at groves (the Asherah) is what the Israelites did when they worshiped nature which is what Wicca does. Only they didn't call it Wicca as we do today. Every single false belief that we know of today can be found in the bible. They carved faces into trees and stones and worshiped them as gods and tree veneration is where we get our decorated Christmas tree from. Wicca by other names is an ancient form of paganism.

[Axxman]

I have not read the thread, but have you read Harry Potter? If not shame on you, the use of a book you have not read and then making a claim about it, is very dishonest. If you have then you clearly have no understanding of Harry Potter or JKR. And you fell for the propaganda that have been shelled out about the book, and that all have been proven false. By the either JKR or by others who have explained the series and the influence behind them.

Ah the old "Devils gambit." You cannot criticize the devil, until you have experienced the joys of hell.

So basically your argument is that Christians cannot recognize evil...until they have submersed themselves into it?? You know I once read a book detailing the Christian message of Star Wars...that doesn't make Star Wars a christian movie. This guy can write all he wants about the so-called Christianity of Harry Potter...that doesn't make it Christian. The Exorcist was laden with Christian imagery too...will Granger start writing books telling us the joys of demonic possession???

[Axxman]

Actually both witchcraft and Wicca are spoken of in the old testament many times. Burning incense under trees or in or at groves (the Asherah) is what the Israelites did when they worshiped nature which is what Wicca does. Only they didn't call it Wicca as we do today. Every single false belief that we know of today can be found in the bible. They carved faces into trees and stones and worshiped them as gods and tree veneration is where we get our decorated Christmas tree from. Wicca by other names is an ancient form of paganism.

Elements of 'wicca' are spoken of in the old testament. Wiccan's do things that have been done in the past, no argument there, but wicca is a new religion. It is a hodge-podge of various ancient rituals and philosophies. Witchcraft, of course, has been around forever. Witchcraft is evil and it is portrayed as evil in the Narnia books. Wicca is not portrayed in Narnia...it is portrayed in Harry Potter as the author has admitted to studying aspects of that 'new' religion for her books.

Even so...it is not my intent to say that CS Lewis didn't know of witchcraft at all. Of course he did, which is why he shows the antagonist in his story as an evil witch. However, my broader point was that CS Lewis never envisioned that someday kids would be able to go into witchcraft stores and buy that type of paraphenalia at will. That children would walk around wearing pentagrams on their shirts, and carrying spellbooks to school. Witchcraft, as it is known today, as a mainstream and popular religious choice...was a foreign concept to CS Lewis.