Confession

[~Shalhevet~]

Definitely, confession is a necessary part of accountability because sin flourishes in darkness.

But sins were forgiven on the cross, not in your pastor's ears, right?

Sins are forgiven on the cross. However, priests/pastors/etc. have the capacity to forgive through Jesus. In my church, the pastors states: "As a called and ordained servant of the word, I hereby forgive you all of your sins in the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

I do, HOWEVER, feel that is VERY important to have private confession and private forgiveness with the Lord. Church is wonderful, but a personal relationship is vital.

Forgiveness through a pastor is not a big deal to me. The authority is there, but I much prefer to find my forgiveness directly through Christ.

[OneLight]

Definitely, confession is a necessary part of accountability because sin flourishes in darkness.

But sins were forgiven on the cross, not in your pastor's ears, right?

Sins are forgiven on the cross. However, priests/pastors/etc. have the capacity to forgive through Jesus. In my church, the pastors states: "As a called and ordained servant of the word, I hereby forgive you all of your sins in the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

I do, HOWEVER, feel that is VERY important to have private confession and private forgiveness with the Lord. Church is wonderful, but a personal relationship is vital.

Forgiveness through a pastor is not a big deal to me. The authority is there, but I much prefer to find my forgiveness directly through Christ.

The Apostles were given the power to forgive sins and were called directly by Christ to do so. If Christ meant for this to continue down through time, He would of mentioned it in scripture. John 20 tells us ...

The Apostles Commissioned

Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them,

[Fez]

Mat 6:12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Mat 6:14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you,

Mat 6:15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I need no man to forgive me my sins, I need Jesus.

[leoxiii]

The Apostles are not the same as pastors, preachers, bishops, elders, deacons, or any other official placement in today's church.

This is where we really do disagree on the meaning of the Scriptures. Who is right? I will make my appeal to the generation of Christians after the Apostles, those who still had the words of the Apostles ringing in their ears. They held that the Bishops were the Apostles' Successors. I also see this in the Bible. Blessed Peter makes it very clear that someone needs to fill the vacancy left by Judas. Then the 7 deacons are appointed in Acts 6:6. Timothy, as young as he is, is also made an "elder", as is Titus, who is sent to Crete to ordain more "elders". They are the presbyters. The English word for "presbyter" is "priest". The purpose of a High Priest is to oversee a priesthood. It makes no sense for Jesus to be called a High Priest if there is no priesthood for Him to oversee.

[Fez]

The Apostles are not the same as pastors, preachers, bishops, elders, deacons, or any other official placement in today's church.

This is where we really do disagree on the meaning of the Scriptures. Who is right? I will make my appeal to the generation of Christians after the Apostles, those who still had the words of the Apostles ringing in their ears. They held that the Bishops were the Apostles' Successors. I also see this in the Bible. Blessed Peter makes it very clear that someone needs to fill the vacancy left by Judas. Then the 7 deacons are appointed in Acts 6:6. Timothy, as young as he is, is also made an "elder", as is Titus, who is sent to Crete to ordain more "elders". They are the presbyters. The English word for "presbyter" is "priest". The purpose of a High Priest is to oversee a priesthood. It makes no sense for Jesus to be called a High Priest if there is no priesthood for Him to oversee.

Jesus is the high priest of the church, we are the church.

[leoxiii]

The Apostles are not the same as pastors, preachers, bishops, elders, deacons, or any other official placement in today's church.

This is where we really do disagree on the meaning of the Scriptures. Who is right? I will make my appeal to the generation of Christians after the Apostles, those who still had the words of the Apostles ringing in their ears. They held that the Bishops were the Apostles' Successors. I also see this in the Bible. Blessed Peter makes it very clear that someone needs to fill the vacancy left by Judas. Then the 7 deacons are appointed in Acts 6:6. Timothy, as young as he is, is also made an "elder", as is Titus, who is sent to Crete to ordain more "elders". They are the presbyters. The English word for "presbyter" is "priest". The purpose of a High Priest is to oversee a priesthood. It makes no sense for Jesus to be called a High Priest if there is no priesthood for Him to oversee.

Jesus is the high priest of the church, we are the church.

Where is the priesthood? Where are the priests that Jesus oversees?

Jesus is the first Apostle (Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly vocation, consider the apostle and high priest of our confession, Jesus:).

He appointed other Apostles(John 20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you.),

who in turn left us Successors (Acts 6:6 These they set before the apostles; and they praying, imposed hands upon them.)

to carry on the work of salvation (Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:).

Its all there in the Scriptures.

[Fez]

Elders - Greek: presbyters. Literally, this word refers to the aged. See the notes on Act_11:30. But it may also be a word relating to office, denoting those who were more experienced than others, and who were chosen to preside over and to instruct the rest. What was the nature of this office, and what was the design of the appointment, is not intimated in this word. All that seems to be implied is, that they were to take the charge of the churches during the absence of the apostles. The apostles were about to leave them. They were just organized into churches: they were inexperienced; they needed counsel and direction; they were exposed to dangers; and it was necessary, therefore, that persons should be designated to watch over the spiritual interests of the brethren. The probability is, that they performed all the functions that were required in the infant and feeble churches; in exhorting, instructing; governing, etc. The more experienced and able would be most likely to be active in exhorting and instructing the brethren; and all would be useful in counseling and guiding the flock. The same thing occurred in the church at Ephesus. See the notes on Act_20:17-28. It is not improbable that the business of instructing, or teaching, would be gradually confined to the more talented and able of the elders, and that the others would be concerned mainly in governing and directing the general affairs of the church.In every church - It is implied here that there were elders in each church; that is, that in each church there was more than one. See Act_15:21, where a similar phraseology occurs, and where it is evident that there was more than one reader of the Law of Moses in each city. Compare Tit_1:5,

[leoxiii]

(Barnes)(Henry)(Wesley)

"See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. ... Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Saint Ignatius, Third Bishop of Antioch, disciple of the Apostle John, "Epistle to the Smyrnians," ch. 8, c. A.D. 110.

Hebrews 13:7 Remember your prelates who have spoken the word of God to you; whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation, ... 17 Obey your prelates, and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you.

Edited October 4, 2009 by leoxiii

[JCISGD]

It doesnt witness in my spirit that Jesus meant to give authority to forgive sins to the Apostles, IMO he only meant that they had authority to reject unrepentant sinners from their fellowships, such as shaking the dust off their sandals when not recieved by certain towns.

When the Pharisee`s objected to Christ forgiving sins saying "God alone can forgive sin", Jesus did not refute this, He only insisted He was the God and therefore had the authority. If it were true mere humans could forgive sin against God then Jesus would have corrected them.

God alone can forgive sin, but we are to forgive sins committed against us. We must go directly to God with our sins and wait until we know we are forgiven and cleansed, it is not automatic upon a rote prayers or insincere repentance.

[Fez]

(Barnes)(Henry)(Wesley)

"See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. ... Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Saint Ignatius, Third Bishop of Antioch, disciple of the Apostle John, "Epistle to the Smyrnians," ch. 8, c. A.D. 110.

Hebrews 13:7 Remember your prelates who have spoken the word of God to you; whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation, ... 17 Obey your prelates, and be subject to them. For they watch as being to render an account of your souls; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief. For this is not expedient for you.

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. (KJV)

Leader:-

G2233

ἡγέομαι

hēgeomai

hayg-eh'-om-ahee

Middle voice of a (presumed) strengthened form of G71; to lead, that is, command (with official authority); figuratively to deem, that is, consider: - account, (be) chief, count, esteem, governor, judge, have the rule over, suppose, think.