If Baptism is required for salvation

[other one]

But if you do not follow the other commandments that Jesus gave us you will burn you baptized self in the fires of hell just as the non believers themselves. I don't disagree with what you wrote, it's just short sighted and only part of the story.

I know people who believe, at least they say they do and I saw them baptized and yet they live lives of selfishness and unloving people. They will not be allowed to enter into the kingdom of God.

Again

[kross]

There are those who believe that Baptism must happen in order for a person to be saved. I am wondering;

Do these people feel that Baptism must be done in a Biblical fashion?

The original Greek word for BAptism means to "Whelm" which means cover completely or totally, as we like to say, to dunk people under the water.

Querry; Are those who are spinkled considered unsaved in the eyes of those who say Baptism is required for salvation?

Christians have always accepted sprinkling.

See The Didache, ch. 7. It is a Christian writing older than the Gospel of John (though not inspired like John).

This is really not a true statement. There are some denominations that have always accepted sprinkling. Unless by "Christians" you mean "some Christians". As has been stated, it is not the Biblical Model of a Baptism. If there is an extra-biblical book that teaches sprinkling then maybe that is why GOD left it out of the Bible.

As a Christian, I hold to the teaching of the Bible. IF an arguement could be made for sprinkling, it would have to be made from the standpoint of the sprinkling of blood that was part of the sin offering at the temple sacrifices. Still, the NT is clear that Baptism in the NT is emersion.

Since I do not believe baptism is required for salvation, I was curious if those who do believe this consider those who are sprinkled as unsaved. It would seem that those who consider baptism a requirement and who hold to the teachings of true Biblical baptism consider those who are sprinkled as unsaved. It seems to me that this would cause some ethical/doctrinal/legal discomfort for those who hold to the idea that Baptism is required for salvation. It would equally seem to me that those who believe this and are sprinkled would have some concern about the legitimacy of their baptism.

I will continue to read as I sometimes find the discussions enlightening.

[Smalcald]

It seems trivial to worry about how the water is put upon us. It kind of reminds me of the debate we were having on another thread about the exact DNA of Jesus in Mary's womb and so forth.

It just seems crazy, the more important thing is what is happening and why do we do this thing?

Blessing Smalcald, there is never anything trivial when it comes to what is written in the Word of God, of course I do find it strange concerning a debate on the DNA of Jesus in Mary's womb, but then thats a different interest...just not mine... so I read and more on....jot

But there are many things that are not important nor mentioned, the volume of water used in baptism is one of those things. How many angels can fit on the head of a pin sort of argument, not relevant to salvation, on and on.

The important thing is what IS baptism for a believer? What is happening in the baptism of a believer, if we cannot agree on these things, it hardly matters how much or little water is used.

For me on this topic I line up with Leo, I think it is the most scriptural approach and it is the concept that my congregation believes. But we also believe that anyone who has been Baptized with water in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in a Christian Church has been baptized.

[OneLight]

Christians have always accepted sprinkling.

I would like to know when sprinkling became acceptable to the Roman Catholics, and some other closely related denomination? I did a little research and found that one of the Roman Catholic Saints did not agree with sprinkling, but full immersion.

Hippolytus' account of the baptismal service

When the person being baptized goes down into the water, he who baptizes him, putting his hand on him, shall say: "Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty?" And the person being baptized shall say: "I believe." Then holding his hand on his head, he shall baptize him once. And then he shall say: "Do you believe in Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who was born of the Virgin Mary, and was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and was dead and buried, and rose again the third day, alive from the dead, and ascended into heaven, and sat at the right hand of the Father, and will come to judge the living and the dead?" And when he says: "I believe," he is baptized again. And again he shall say: "Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, in the holy church, and the resurrection of the body?" The person being baptized shall say: "I believe," and then he is baptized a third time.

-- Hippolytus, early third century

[leoxiii]

Christians have always accepted sprinkling.

I would like to know when sprinkling became acceptable to the Roman Catholics, and some other closely related denomination? I did a little research and found that one of the Roman Catholic Saints did not agree with sprinkling, but full immersion.

Hippolytus' account of the baptismal service

When the person being baptized goes down into the water, he who baptizes him, putting his hand on him, shall say: "Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty?" And the person being baptized shall say: "I believe." Then holding his hand on his head, he shall baptize him once. And then he shall say: "Do you believe in Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who was born of the Virgin Mary, and was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and was dead and buried, and rose again the third day, alive from the dead, and ascended into heaven, and sat at the right hand of the Father, and will come to judge the living and the dead?" And when he says: "I believe," he is baptized again. And again he shall say: "Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, in the holy church, and the resurrection of the body?" The person being baptized shall say: "I believe," and then he is baptized a third time.

-- Hippolytus, early third century

I cannot find that particular quote anywhere in the writings of Saint Hippolytus.

Could you please provide which writing of his it is taken from?

[OneLight]

Christians have always accepted sprinkling.

I would like to know when sprinkling became acceptable to the Roman Catholics, and some other closely related denomination? I did a little research and found that one of the Roman Catholic Saints did not agree with sprinkling, but full immersion.

Hippolytus' account of the baptismal service

When the person being baptized goes down into the water, he who baptizes him, putting his hand on him, shall say: "Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty?" And the person being baptized shall say: "I believe." Then holding his hand on his head, he shall baptize him once. And then he shall say: "Do you believe in Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who was born of the Virgin Mary, and was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and was dead and buried, and rose again the third day, alive from the dead, and ascended into heaven, and sat at the right hand of the Father, and will come to judge the living and the dead?" And when he says: "I believe," he is baptized again. And again he shall say: "Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, in the holy church, and the resurrection of the body?" The person being baptized shall say: "I believe," and then he is baptized a third time.

-- Hippolytus, early third century

I cannot find that particular quote anywhere in the writings of Saint Hippolytus.

Could you please provide which writing of his it is taken from?

The Apostolic Tradition of Hippolytus 21:12-18

[other one]

walking in the light is simply saying that we must follow his instructions (commandments) you aren't saying anything different than i. We would only disagree that it is baptism itself that would give a person the ability to do that..... It's the Holy Spirit that comes and renews a persons very spirit and soul. And there are some who received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized, so we know that it is not the act of baptism that brings the Holy Spirit into the body of the believer.

Then you continue to misunderstand and misinterpret Acts 2:38. Peter is clear

[OneLight]

walking in the light is simply saying that we must follow his instructions (commandments) you aren't saying anything different than i. We would only disagree that it is baptism itself that would give a person the ability to do that..... It's the Holy Spirit that comes and renews a persons very spirit and soul. And there are some who received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized, so we know that it is not the act of baptism that brings the Holy Spirit into the body of the believer.

Then you continue to misunderstand and misinterpret Acts 2:38. Peter is clear – those believers that day where instructed to (1) "repent" – (2) they were instructed to be baptized for the remission of their sins and (3) then (and only then) would they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This is hard to miss unless one cannot fit it into their personal dogma.

Peter answered them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.

Then

you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift. (Act 2:38 ISV)

You can look at Acts and I'll look at Romans and other places that tell me who did not get accepted..... and if you want to believe that a person who confesses the Lord as his/her savior and dies before he can be baptized can't enter the kingdom, it's your prerogative to do so.

Brother, you already gave him scripture in post #18

Acts 10:44-48 (New King James Version)

The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

While Peter was preaching, those listening were filled with the Holy Spirit. Then Peter asked is there was water for baptism.

[mjrhealth]

Baptism is not required for salvation, accepting Jesus as Lord and saviour is. Go on, Just ask Him..

In His LOve

[other one]

Baptism is not required for salvation, accepting Jesus as Lord and saviour is. Go on, Just ask Him..

In His LOve

Okay