If Baptism is required for salvation

[Botz]

So water baptism is illustrated biblically by full immersion.

It is a command from Jesus, so we should do it.

It testifies of what G-d has accomplished in us through salvation.

Is there any thing further we can add to complicate this elementary doctrine.

The ordinance of baptism is not complicated at all and it is an elementary part of the gospel of grace.

Precisely my point....and especially posted so that any who have been following this thread and are confused by the application of unbiblical rhetoric can clearly see for themselves what Scripture teaches.

[humbleseeker]

I dont believe that batism is needed for salvation. That being said, baptism is not some sort of magical act that makes a person saved. Baptism is a commandment that after we are saved we should be baptized I prefer the full body sumersion. Its an outward sign of our devotion to Christ to lay down the world and pick up a new life.

[Botz]

So water baptism is illustrated biblically by full immersion.

It is a command from Jesus, so we should do it.

It testifies of what G-d has accomplished in us through salvation.

Is there any thing further we can add to complicate this elementary doctrine.

Sure, some people claim it is necessary for salvation. If you fail to get baptized before you die, you will go to hell. If you get accept Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, but die in a car accident on the way to baptistry, well too bad for you, chump.

That's how they take a beautiful picture/symbol and turn it into a theological trainwreck.

It is obvious that it is something all of us should do in obedience to the example and directive of Jesus our Messiah, but to persist that it is absolutely necessary as part of an entire package of salvation is even more plainly obvious that it is incorrect. One doesn't need to use the example of the thief on the cross...I have ministered to several on their death beds, (as I am sure many others here have done), and they have repented and believed in Jesus and were saved...and as I mentioned before, if they could have got up and been baptized, it would have been their great pleasure to do so.

[Guest shiloh357]

That's the thing. Those who demand that baptism is necessary for salvation do not want to deal with specific situations where people get saved but for some reason don't have access to any type of baptistry.

What happens to a soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan who accepts Christ but due to their combat situation is nowhere near a baptistry and dies in combat before getting baptised?

What happens to a person who accepts Christ but is hooked up to tupes and wires on their hospital bed and cannot be moved much less immersed in water?

Any number real life scenarios could be offered where people simply do not have access or are in some prohibited from being baptized. If baptism is necessary for salvation, does God waive their need to be baptized?

[Fez]

So water baptism is illustrated biblically by full immersion.

It is a command from Jesus, so we should do it.

It testifies of what G-d has accomplished in us through salvation.

Is there any thing further we can add to complicate this elementary doctrine.

Sure, some people claim it is necessary for salvation. If you fail to get baptized before you die, you will go to hell. If you get accept Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, but die in a car accident on the way to baptistry, well too bad for you, chump.

That's how they take a beautiful picture/symbol and turn it into a theological trainwreck.

Amen, it is a beautiful picture, and something I think every saved person should do. But I also agree that it is not necessary for salvation. I have been trying to think of a parallel example, and the only (poor) one I can come up with is that when two people are married in the sight of God, they exchange rings as a pledge of their love and eternal commitment. Is baptism not the same? (a poor example I know)

[OneLight]

The remission of sins comes through the blood. The scripture of baptism is only symbolic to the work of His sacrificial blood atonement.

Matthew 26:28

For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Hebrews 9:22

And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

Baptism is one of many works we should perform in obedience to His word. Salvation does not contain works.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

John 3:16-18

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 10:9

I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

Acts 2:21

And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.’

Acts 16:29-31

Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 5:10

For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Romans 10:8-10

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:13

For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

1 Corinthians 1:18

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Ephesians 2:4-9 (New King James Version)

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Works come after salvation. We are created in Him for good works.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Matthew 5:16

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

By grace we are saved. When He creates in us a new creation, we continue in Him to do what He wills for us, not to just sit around thinking all is well and do nothing. All through out the NT you will find that we are to about His business.

[other one]

Rom 10:5-13

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

NKJV

Not a single word about baptism, and specifically states that we are saved by our Lord at the time of confessing of Jesus being our Lord.

[OneLight]

The remission of sins comes through the blood. The scripture of baptism is only symbolic to the work of His sacrificial blood atonement.

No one has stated otherwise

[humbleseeker]

Realy I dont understand some of these questions. We should know that God is a mercifull God and knows all things and the hearts of men If for some reason a man is unable to be baptized then lets not think that God can understand. Also why wouldnt you want to be baptized after you are saved its biblical and it shows the church your devotion.

[Guest shiloh357]

Realy I dont understand some of these questions. We should know that God is a mercifull God and knows all things and the hearts of men If for some reason a man is unable to be baptized then lets not think that God can understand. Also why wouldnt you want to be baptized after you are saved its biblical and it shows the church your devotion.

No one is questioning whether or not a person should be baptized. No one is challenging the fact that God has commanded it. What we rightfully challenge is the notion that if a person fails, for whatever reason, to be baptized, such a person is still saved, is still a Christian and will go to heaven when they die, with or without baptism. What is being debated is the notion by some that salvation is conditional upon baptism.