Vain activities

[Rick-Parker]

Would spending time debating with other Christians about board games or teensy weesy spider be 'vain activities'? I don't see how time spent here is bringing lost to Christ.

It's called fellowship, which helps maintain the saved for Christ.

[JCISGD]

Replying in order to avoid multiple posts.

HP- no disagreement there. Im not judging anyone im just trying to show that Ezk 33: 3-5 shows that a Christian is accountable for how they spend their time. Sinners are all around us, I dont think anyone can say they dont know of any?

Artsy-Jesus said His burdens are light and I attest to this, and am not using the word in the sense that its grevious to me. He comes under any load He asks us to carry and shares His joy in sweet communion. I know its from God because I did not seek it and rejected it 3 times at first. I also know because I have perservered way past anything I could or would be bothered syicking with in the natural.

ASC- No monastry for me, we are to be in the world but not of it. The trouble with secluding ourselves is that we only feel when the object before us is in our face so to speak. Its easy to be an angel when nobody ruffles our feathers .

Yod- I agree with you. I havnt called any activity sinful I am only saying vain activities. If an activity has a good purpose it is not vain and therefore dovetails into our commision to seek and save the lost, as the Holy Spirit leads. There does appear to be some dead horses around here. Joking!

[AnotherTraveler]

Morals are not a set of rules, they are a choice made by individuals as to what they do or do not allow. The Apostle Paul made tents, was that a vain activity? He preached against observing the law as Christians, but he also observed many tenants of the law, almost as occasion would allow. He preached against circumcision, and yet he circumsized a traveling companion, was this morally wrong? He was told to NOT GO to Jesusalem in prophecy and in vision, yet he went, was that morally wrong?

Does God require us to witness with each breath? There are millions going to hell, why do we waste time in any other activity? These are questions that are tinted with a measure of zeal, but not with wisdom. God knows that we need rest, we need food, we need interaction with others, and we also need to withdraw sometimes to renew ourselves and recharge ourselves.

We all should have a much greater level of spiritual walking, I am sure, but He is the one that calls us, that motivates us, that annoints us, and we are commanded to obey Him. Certainly we should behave ourselves, but having a hobby, or a distraction from the pressures of life, is not immoral of itself, but we must each submit to whatever God requires of us, being careful not to cast a snare on our brethren because of our zeal.

Morals are as you say what we hold as virtue in our choices, but our morals do not make a thing morally right or wrong.

Again as you say it is not a set of rules either. What makes something morally wrong depends on wether it is the highest good for all involved depending on their respective value, i.e God first then Humans, Angels, Animals etc.

I have not objected to any of the things you list, I have only said it is morally wrong to waste time in anything vain and without good purpose.

Come on Guys read my posts for what Im saying and not what you think im saying and if its unclear please ask questions rather than accuse me of things I have not said.

Perhaps that is all you meant to say, but to be honest with you, your posts read different than that to me, but I am easily mistaken, and I did not intend to accuse anyone of anything, so if what I wrote comes across as an accusation, I apologize, that was not my intent.

[2Joyful]

I think your all missing the point. Everything has a purpose, but is it useful?

Staring at the ceiling can have a useful purpose.

My question was can a Christian have a clear conscience doing that which is not useful? Remember we will have to give account for every idle word spoken.

I did not ask if vain things were enjoyable, but if they were morally right. Please dont use a different definition of vain than intended or how can we get anywhere comparing apples to oranges?

Greetings

Genesis 2:2-3, And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God bless the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made done.

Now if God, Who is all Power, All Knowing, Always Presence, can take a break and rest, then we have been given a morally right to just chill and do the things that does not have to do with kingdom building at the time. We have to do things that rest our physical man or burn out will come about.

Genesis 3:8, And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day....this shows me that there was a fellowship between God, Adam and Eve, and this allows me to gather with others in doing different things, that I have interest in.

We all have other things that must be taken care of, and God understands. He wouldn't have allowed us family, friends, jobs, music, etc if He didn't trust us with them. What counts is that we are true worshipers who love to serve Him and when every opportunity arise, we share the Good News of Jesus, through actions, deeds and telling others how He has changed our lives.

Many times as I sit doing nothing, The Holy Spirit place some

thing in my heart to do concerning Kingdom building.

Finally brethren, whatever things are true,

Whatever things are honest,

Whatever things are pure,

Whatever things are lovely,

Whatever things are of good report,

If there be any virtue, (moral excellence: goodness, righteousness)

And if there be any praise,

Think these things

jotful....

[JCISGD]

I think your all missing the point. Everything has a purpose, but is it useful?

Staring at the ceiling can have a useful purpose.

My question was can a Christian have a clear conscience doing that which is not useful? Remember we will have to give account for every idle word spoken.

I did not ask if vain things were enjoyable, but if they were morally right. Please dont use a different definition of vain than intended or how can we get anywhere comparing apples to oranges?

Greetings

Genesis 2:2-3, And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God bless the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made done.

Now if God, Who is all Power, All Knowing, Always Presence, can take a break and rest, then we have been given a morally right to just chill and do the things that does not have to do with kingdom building at the time. We have to do things that rest our physical man or burn out will come about.

Genesis 3:8, And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day....this shows me that there was a fellowship between God, Adam and Eve, and this allows me to gather with others in doing different things, that I have interest in.

We all have other things that must be taken care of, and God understands. He wouldn't have allowed us family, friends, jobs, music, etc if He didn't trust us with them. What counts is that we are true worshipers who love to serve Him and when every opportunity arise, we share the Good News of Jesus, through actions, deeds and telling others how He has changed our lives.

Many times as I sit doing nothing, The Holy Spirit place some

thing in my heart to do concerning Kingdom building.

Finally brethren, whatever things are true,

Whatever things are honest,

Whatever things are pure,

Whatever things are lovely,

Whatever things are of good report,

If there be any virtue, (moral excellence: goodness, righteousness)

And if there be any praise,

Think these things

jotful....

I agree totally resting has a good purpose and is not vain, it is even crucile to us and crucile to saving souls, but it could be vain if it did not serve any useful purpose and was merely cowardice or time wasting? John Wesly wrote whole volumes of theology inbetween preaching several times a week or day and riding horseback accumulating thousands of miles per year, but he would have rested amply also.

Not sure what your saying there Jot but to clarify I have not said resting or any activity or music is sinful per se, it is motive that makes an activity vain or not unless of course were talking lying, coveting, adultery etc.

[JCISGD]

Perhaps that is all you meant to say, but to be honest with you, your posts read different than that to me, but I am easily mistaken, and I did not intend to accuse anyone of anything, so if what I wrote comes across as an accusation, I apologize, that was not my intent.

I probably need to be more careful how i sound, but agree its easily misread without tone of voice to accompany it. No offense taken by me now or ever on the boards and if i do, i consider myself at fault and not the other.

[2Joyful]

I think your all missing the point. Everything has a purpose, but is it useful?

Staring at the ceiling can have a useful purpose.

My question was can a Christian have a clear conscience doing that which is not useful? Remember we will have to give account for every idle word spoken.

I did not ask if vain things were enjoyable, but if they were morally right. Please dont use a different definition of vain than intended or how can we get anywhere comparing apples to oranges?

Greetings

Genesis 2:2-3, And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God bless the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made done.

Now if God, Who is all Power, All Knowing, Always Presence, can take a break and rest, then we have been given a morally right to just chill and do the things that does not have to do with kingdom building at the time. We have to do things that rest our physical man or burn out will come about.

Genesis 3:8, And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day....this shows me that there was a fellowship between God, Adam and Eve, and this allows me to gather with others in doing different things, that I have interest in.

We all have other things that must be taken care of, and God understands. He wouldn't have allowed us family, friends, jobs, music, etc if He didn't trust us with them. What counts is that we are true worshipers who love to serve Him and when every opportunity arise, we share the Good News of Jesus, through actions, deeds and telling others how He has changed our lives.

Many times as I sit doing nothing, The Holy Spirit place some

thing in my heart to do concerning Kingdom building.

Finally brethren, whatever things are true,

Whatever things are honest,

Whatever things are pure,

Whatever things are lovely,

Whatever things are of good report,

If there be any virtue, (moral excellence: goodness, righteousness)

And if there be any praise,

Think these things

jotful....

I agree totally resting has a good purpose and is not vain, it is even crucile to us and crucile to saving souls, but it could be vain if it did not serve any useful purpose and was merely cowardice or time wasting? John Wesly wrote whole volumes of theology inbetween preaching several times a week or day and riding horseback accumulating thousands of miles per year, but he would have rested amply also.

Not sure what your saying there Jot but to clarify I have not said resting or any activity or music is sinful per se, it is motive that makes an activity vain or not unless of course were talking lying, coveting, adultery etc.

Blessings,

I simply replied to: " I did not ask if vain things were enjoyable, but if they were morally right".

I picked rest and fellowshipping as two examples that they are morally right, because God did them.

I suggest maybe you should make a list of some of the things you may feel that has became vain and we all can go from there.

The above scriptures were just used as a guideline to help keep us balance when we are not functioning in Kingdom building.

Peace,

Jot

[nebula]

JCISGD -

What I am seeing is that the Lord placed a strong conviction on your heart, and that's great. But I am also seeing that you believe the Lord means for this same conviction to be on everyone else's heart, too.

And this is the point of contention.

I've noticed that those called to be Evangelists tend to believe Evangelism is the begin, middle, and end of Christianity. I was under a ministry for a couple years while in Middle school that taught this. "If you aren't saving souls, you are backsliding!" Talk about a load of condemnation that was on me . . . I couldn't evangelize worth a dime! (Believe me, if you saw my attempts, you's pay me to be quiet.) I'm serious, I flubbed up bad! Me trying to be an evangelist was the classic square peg trying to fit into a round hole. It just didn't work!

This is one of the reasons I was contending with you about everything goes down to saving souls. You know, that's an awesome call for an evangelist. But it's a terrible load for a non-evangelist. The shoes just don't fit properly.

Now in principle, is entertainment an idol in our society? Yes. Are Christians guilty of bowing down to this idol? Unfortunately, I believe we do. We place way to much value in it. Should we sacrifice our entertainment for the Kingdom of God? Absolutely! But to define "the Kingdom of God" as "saving souls" is adding to the word of the Lord something that isn't there. For you, yes most definitely, working for the Lord is "saving souls." But what you need to understand is that not everyone is meant to be a planter and harvester for the Kingdom. Not everyone is meant to be a gatekeeper to the Kingdom. For instance, my place is near the Temple, if not in the Temple. For me to work the gates is out of place. Now I'm not saying I shouldn't share the Gospel with people and such, nor that I can't. But my place is better served ministering to those already saved, teaching those who desire to seek the Lord how to grow in Him. This is my working for the Kingdom.

So you understand?

[Miss Elly]

I think your all missing the point. Everything has a purpose, but is it useful?

Staring at the ceiling can have a useful purpose.

My question was can a Christian have a clear conscience doing that which is not useful? Remember we will have to give account for every idle word spoken.

I did not ask if vain things were enjoyable, but if they were morally right. Please dont use a different definition of vain than intended or how can we get anywhere comparing apples to oranges?

Dear JCISGD

Perhaps you have a different calling / unction from the spirit on how you spend your time. It seems some folks are more senstitive to certain spiritual things than others. Remember the scripture says, some will bring forth 30 fold, others 100 fold, speaking of fruits and gifts from God. If we have the spirit of God in us and the joy of the Lord, walking in the spirit we are happy, and can enjoy life more. A sunset, a walk by the sea, etc. etc. A person can do these things and still be praising God can't they? If we walk with Christ, he will show us what we should be doing. I think every child of God should strive to be pleasing to God while we are on this earth. But we are not here to judge another Christian, let God do that. So yes, christians can have a clear conscience doing some things that may not seem "useful" to you or others. God would have to convict them for it to bother their conscience.

[Botz]

Sorry JCISGD my computer was down yesterday, but I gleaned these from your posts, and tried not to rip any of them out of context...Personally I think they go beyond Scripture and impose your view on others. Part of the direction of the Holy Spirit comes from our brothers and sisters in the L-rd, and therefore there is a strong case to weigh up if our own perception, and even what we have sought from G-d is truly on course if we a swimming in a different direction. (I am aware that from time to time there are those who are a voice to the Church and have a true burden from the L-rd.)

IMO music for entertainment is selfish and a misuse of the time allocated to us.

Did Jesus or Paul entertain themselves while on this earth? Im not saying we are not to have recreation and rest but entertainment is soulish and a appetite of the flesh.

Please tell me how it can be morally ok to watch sinners perishing while we spend time and money listening to a fleeting pleasure. Remember those that are first will be last.

I am a hypocrite in saying these things as I too waste much of my time and talents, but I am a watchman called to cry out "awake Church" multitudes are perishing while Christians are slumbering. More than this we are missing out on Soooo much the LORD has for us, "greater things will you do in my name" says the LORD.

I need to caution anyone of mocking others or their veiws, the LORD is jealous of His and I have known Him to punish those who do. This is not a threat, I have learnt the hard way about refusing to give the Lords warnings.

Elisha was mocked and a she bear mauled 40 children. God did this.

If anyone thinks it is ok to live for self while souls are being lost every second, then can they be following the Son of God whos single mission was to seek and save the lost?

Botz on the contrarydoes not God hate law breakers and punish them with hell? And isnt every example held up as pleasing to God in the bible, considered a morally upright person, and every example of one punished for disobedience?

What did Jesus do ? There has always been entertainments in the world but we do not see a hint of Jesus enjoying these even in His youth.

I have not assumed anything as the bible is for our instruction, the whole tenor of the bible shows that frivolous activities were unknown by our LORD, who set His face like flint towards Jerusalem. The bible does however speak against foolish things of this world and foolish or lazy people in times of need.

What I am saying is that selfish indulgence while souls are perishing is sin and that secular music not used for worship is selfish indulgence and a work of the flesh.

Just because a person says they do not feel conviction from the Holy Spirit does not mean something is right, have we not all had to adjust our veiws and behaviour as more light has been shed on us?

I am not saying that anything other than soul winning is sin, I am saying that everything we do must have this as our end goal.

The OP asked if secular music was a sin, and I replied that it is IF for mindless entertainment and not to glorify God.

Secular music is a sin if listened to with no goal of glorifying God in doing so, and the only way it could glorify God would be if it helps in saving souls.

Nobody here has answered my question, how can it be morally right to indulge in vain activities while a single soul is about to spend eternity in torment and seperartion from God.

Im not saying there are no legimitate activities that do not directly save souls, but that whatever we do it is to be for the glory of God and how does it glorify God if it does not have His goal that "none should perish"?

Ill try again. Although Jesus always loved the Father and brought glory to Him in all He did and said, His sole reason was to seek and save the lost and as His disciples this then becomes our sole purpose (not our sole activity). Sometimes this means we have fun with our families at other times it means going to a wedding or funeral etc, but it does not mean we waste anytime in vain activities that have no good purpose and would hinder or lose any opportunity to save souls.

So athough we do everything to the glory of God just like Jesus, we also have a ultimate goal of winning souls by everything we do, be it directly or indirectly.

Dont confuse enjoyments with entertainments, enjoyments can be edifying and needful, but being entertained is self serving and unless for a higher purpose selfish and unecessary or helpful to Christian maturity.

A vain activity is something that has no useful purpose. Are we agreed?

There are many vain activities that would not be sin if souls were not plunging into horrendous and eternal torment every second. Agreed?

Now please answer me how a Christian in can good conscience indulge in any vain activity while here on earth and not be guilty of the blood of those perishing.?

My other question then is, can it be morally ok to listen to secular or christian music to entertain ourselves.

My question was can a Christian have a clear conscience doing that which is not useful? Remember we will have to give account for every idle word spoken.

I did not ask if vain things were enjoyable, but if they were morally right. Please dont use a different definition of vain than intended or how can we get anywhere comparing apples to oranges?

If doing something vain with no purpose while souls are perishing does not incur guilt, then I guess we are free to anything we like and God just smiles?

I dont have a problem with listening to secular music, but usually only do so when it is unavoidable such as in the workplace. Its not what goes in that is unclean but what comes out. I personally think alot of "ok" songs are more deceptively harmful than outright blasphemous or immoral songs.

The problem in christianity today is that the blind are leading the blind and very few will be taught by proven men of God. By proven I dont mean they are a pastor of a flock, I mean they are seen to be faultless before God and man and are used migthily in power. By faultless I dont mean they never err, I mean their life and example is holy, and beyond reproach.

I dont know why God has chosen to give me this burden, but I do know its from God. I cant see how it appears to others but I dont live in condemnation nor do I seek to condemn others. His burden is light and His yoke is easy, in the past I was an untamed horse with no bridle, but I also was of very little use to my master.