Condemnation and Guilt

[JCISGD]

How is that a Christian can say someone else is condemning them or placing guilt on them. If we know Christ then surely we only concern ourselves with what He says to us. I can understand how unbelievers can come under false condemnation and guilt as they often listen to the lies of Satan etc.

Is it not deflecting or dishonest attempt to silence another voice or opinion? Jesus did not cry foul when accused of false things, He refuted them but I dont see him trying to censor anyone. Are we supposed to censor preachers we disagree with? what if they are right and it is we who need to repent or change our thinking?

If anyone here should tell me "your wrong and in danger of hell", I would merely ask them why they think so and if they can sufficiently prove to my mind they are right, I would be very grateful for the correction. But if not I would only think "oh well thats your opinion but I disagree".

Why would I take offense and accuse them of trying to condemn me or bring me under guilt. If the shoe fits wear it, but if not dont.

There will always be differing veiws on every subject, and i maintain that although we are to defend correct doctrine, censorship endangers silencing the voice of Gods messangers. The Jews did this and heard no prophet for 400 yrs B.C, asthey killed the prophets they disagreed with. Is it right that "christians" do this also?

[tah]

Well.. first off , it is good to watch your brothers back in my opinion and if he is doing something wrong you should tell him..

That's what family does...

In the New Testament this happened..

1Th 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;

1Th 5:13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

1Th 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

1Th 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

Tit 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Censoring is a part or our admonition I do believe..

If someone censors me for some reason then my part is to get before God and find out what the problem is .. If my heart is seeking him and not my own then I truly believe He will show me the answer to the issue I am faced with..

If they are correct , I need to adjust..

If they are not I must share with them what I believe God has said and go from there..

God is not bound by mans censorship of any kind.. The Holy Spirit is free to reach any heart that will receive His truth... He cannot be censored ...

Who has been killed for sharing Gods word..what did I miss???

[Matthitjah]

How is that a Christian can say someone else is condemning them or placing guilt on them. If we know Christ then surely we only concern ourselves with what He says to us. I can understand how unbelievers can come under false condemnation and guilt as they often listen to the lies of Satan etc.

Is it not deflecting or dishonest attempt to silence another voice or opinion? Jesus did not cry foul when accused of false things, He refuted them but I dont see him trying to censor anyone. Are we supposed to censor preachers we disagree with? what if they are right and it is we who need to repent or change our thinking?

If anyone here should tell me "your wrong and in danger of hell", I would merely ask them why they think so and if they can sufficiently prove to my mind they are right, I would be very grateful for the correction. But if not I would only think "oh well thats your opinion but I disagree".

Why would I take offense and accuse them of trying to condemn me or bring me under guilt. If the shoe fits wear it, but if not dont.

There will always be differing veiws on every subject, and i maintain that although we are to defend correct doctrine, censorship endangers silencing the voice of Gods messangers. The Jews did this and heard no prophet for 400 yrs B.C, asthey killed the prophets they disagreed with. Is it right that "christians" do this also?

Grace to you,

I'm not entirley sure that your making any sense whatsoever brother. Who has censored you?

Peace,

Dave

[JCISGD]

Well.. first off , it is good to watch your brothers back in my opinion and if he is doing something wrong you should tell him..

That's what family does...

In the New Testament this happened..

1Th 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;

1Th 5:13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

1Th 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

1Th 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

Tit 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Censoring is a part or our admonition I do believe..

If someone censors me for some reason then my part is to get before God and find out what the problem is .. If my heart is seeking him and not my own then I truly believe He will show me the answer to the issue I am faced with..

If they are correct , I need to adjust..

If they are not I must share with them what I believe God has said and go from there..

God is not bound by mans censorship of any kind.. The Holy Spirit is free to reach any heart that will receive His truth... He cannot be censored ...

Who has been killed for sharing Gods word..what did I miss???

Hi Tah, I agree with what your saying and think we have a different understanding of the word censor, to me it is like the way tv programmes are edited by an elected person.

I have no problem with being admonished, my point was how can a Christian feel condemned or guilt from anothers words if they know and listen to Jesus.

Jesus said the Pharisee`s killed the prophets just as their fathers did, Im not calling anyone a Pharisee but imo we are in danger of grieving the Holy Spirit if we begin to censor what others say by accusing them of bringing condemnation.

[JCISGD]

I'm not entirley sure that your making any sense whatsoever brother. Who has censored you?

Peace,

Dave

Hi Dave i think your reading into my post, im not saying I have been censored.

What part doesnt make sense, perhaps i can clarify?

My post is asking how a "christian" can accuse another of bringing condemnation, if we know Jesus and listen to His voice?

Im only saying we are in danger of censorship and "killing the prophets"i mo, if we accuse others of bringing condemnation or guilt. (im NOT saying i am a Prophet)

But i am asking the question as perhaps there are legitimate reasons to object to percieved condemnation. I posted this as both an objection and to see what others thought about it.

peace,

arthur.

[Matthitjah]

I'm not entirley sure that your making any sense whatsoever brother. Who has censored you?

Peace,

Dave

Hi Dave i think your reading into my post, im not saying I have been censored.

My post is asking how a "christian" can accuse another of bringing condemnation, if we know Jesus and listen to His voice?

Im only saying we are in danger of censorship and "killing the prophets"i mo, if we accuse others of bringing condemnation or guilt. (im NOT saying i am a Prophet)

But i am asking the question as perhaps there are legitimate reasons to object to percieved condemnation. I posted this as both an objection and to see what others thought about it.

peace,

arthur.

Arthur,

You used the word "censorship," not I

However, do you believe that you are above correction from within the Body?

No one has killed any prophet and the Pharisaical charge is just plain silly. It is exactly because there was no correction received by the Pharisee and Old Testament Hierarchy that the Prophets were killed.

The Prophet was sent by God to bring correction, the Pharisee and civil leadership would not receive it.

Nowaday's, within the Body, the Body decides whether to receive a Doctrine or not by reprooving it with the Word.

Reproof is what you have been offered here at Worthy, by your brethren, in accords with the mandates of the Word, and the Love necessary to define it to be authored by the Spirit.

Are you the Head and not in need of examination and correction?

Peace,

Dave

[OneLight]

I guess it depends on what people are telling others. We are told to keep an eye on our brothers and sisters. Even James tells us ...

James 5:19-20 (New King James Version)

Bring Back the Erring One

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Some are more legalistic in their walk and feel what God tells them about themselves has to be so for others as well. That is like placing a stumbling block in front of others. Even Paul stood against eating meet if it made someone stumble. Jesus warns us not to cause a babe in Him to stumble. We have to wise with our words, for we will stand accountable for every word we speak.

Mark 9:42

But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.

[Believer1997]

JCISGD,

I'm not sure - but you are either on a huge guilt trip or trying to make sure others are taking one.... imo.

[Botz]

How is that a Christian can say someone else is condemning them or placing guilt on them. If we know Christ then surely we only concern ourselves with what He says to us. I can understand how unbelievers can come under false condemnation and guilt as they often listen to the lies of Satan etc.

Is it not deflecting or dishonest attempt to silence another voice or opinion? Jesus did not cry foul when accused of false things, He refuted them but I dont see him trying to censor anyone. Are we supposed to censor preachers we disagree with? what if they are right and it is we who need to repent or change our thinking?

If anyone here should tell me "your wrong and in danger of hell", I would merely ask them why they think so and if they can sufficiently prove to my mind they are right, I would be very grateful for the correction. But if not I would only think "oh well thats your opinion but I disagree".

Why would I take offense and accuse them of trying to condemn me or bring me under guilt. If the shoe fits wear it, but if not dont.

There will always be differing veiws on every subject, and i maintain that although we are to defend correct doctrine, censorship endangers silencing the voice of Gods messangers. The Jews did this and heard no prophet for 400 yrs B.C, asthey killed the prophets they disagreed with. Is it right that "christians" do this also?

Hi Arthur...it was a shame you did not address some of the points I was trying to make in other posts...but I will put my hand up in this post, and say that I am one who believes some of the stuff you have recently said carries the onerous weight of condemnation and guilt...previously I said this, indirectly referring to your stance on vain activities especially music/entertainment:

We all need to encourage, challenge, admonish each other in the L-rd, but according to His purposes, and in a spirit of love and understanding that does not seek to impose upon or judge another Believer's life and bring condemnation rather than conviction.

I can say it quite clearly to a brother in the L-rd, because I really believe it is of G-d, and biblical...and my safety net is that any brethren here can judge what I say and the manner in which I say it, so if I am off-key or my attitude is wrong, I am confident someone, especially the Mods will call my attention to it, and I will think and pray about it, and if I need to, change my tone or re-think what I have been saying....that is the safe-guard of being in the body of Messiah...its like having loving parents who you know will pull you up short if you step out of line...because they love you...and that is part of the way G-d has caused His Church to function.

Yours was more than just another voice or opinion in the context of what was being discussed, and was way out in left field, but like I mentioned before...I think it is mostly grist for the mill, with a smidgen of self-justification thrown in, because you just cannot see or accept what has happened and what you are doing...or why it has an air of spirituality, but actually goes against sound doctrine.

I have been around too long, and seen too many lives affected in the Body through the ministrations of people who unwittingly impose impulsive and unbiblical life-styles on others....and I will not sit still and be quiet about it... for your sake, and for the brethren's sake.

What your line of reasoning is concerning 'censorship' I cannot tell...again your post is somewhat bewildering and a tad confusing...which means you once again having to re-define exactly what you mean (an impossibility I think ) and try to answer the poor confused souls who misunderstand what you are labouring (and it sure is labouring) to present.

Thoughtfully...and watchfully....your brother in Messiah. Botz

[JCISGD]

All i can say is i must speaking a foreign language? No matter what i say people always insist i said something else and then go about thinking they disprove me.

This is when i usually ask for ONE point at a time to avoid going to mars before we get to the moon, but this seems impossible for folks also and they would rather carry on accusing me of all manner of evil motive

1.)Where did i imply/hint or even insinuate that i was above correction?

I went to lengths to say the opposite.

I have no problem with being admonished, my point was how can a Christian feel condemned or guilt from anothers words if they know and listen to Jesus.

- reply to Tah #3 i think.

Botz you havnt answered my questions and then have gone on insisting i am bringing condemnation.

2.) How can i? i am no authority nor do i claim to be.

3.) Is this an open forum? or are we only allowed to say what others want to hear?