Teachers forced to 'hide in closets' to pray

[Axxman]

Cite the ruling then, so I can read exactly what the Supreme Court said on the issue. I'd like to know, because my daughter's second grade teacher needs to get herself a bunch of religious symbols to hang around her neck, next to her cross.

Literally, you can pick just about any religious expression case that goes above the State Judiciary to Federal Court. I'd say the Judge Moore case and his fight to hang the 10 Commandments was a good example. The 14th amendment detractors often cite its anti-discrimination rulings when its comes to personal and business case law.

I just googled "Judge Moore 14th Amendment" and this was the first thing to pop up...Judge Moore and the Godless 14th Amendment. I haven't read the whole thing but it appears to be before the actual case was heard. Either way...the 14th has an impact on those type of cases.

[Guest shiloh357]

OK, I looked up the 14th amendment, and I am not seeing what you are saying, Axx.

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

Its right there...section one of the Fourteenth Amendment prohibits discrimination by securing "the equal protection of the laws" for every person. That would include religious discrimination. In a 1979 consultation on the issue, the United States commission on civil rights defined religious discrimination in relation to the civil rights guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

That commision defined religious discrimination as follows: "religious discrimination occurs when someone is denied " the equal protection of the laws, equality of status under the law, equal treatment in the administration of justice, and equality of opportunity and access to employment, education, housing, public services and facilities, and public accommodation because of their exercise of their right to religious freedom."

See??? I can use Wikipedia too!!

You see, if you are working for the taxpayers in an official capacity and you start praying to your diety...it is legally discriminatory to not pray to the diety of everyone else.

Wrong. That is not how religious discrimination is defined, legally. Religious discrimination is only a violation of equal protection when one's civil rights are violated on the basis of their religion and their expression of that religion.

There is no law that requires that we have to trot out a religious leader to pray to every known diety at a highschool football game or other public event.

[MorningGlory]

OK, I looked up the 14th amendment, and I am not seeing what you are saying, Axx.

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv

Its right there...section one of the Fourteenth Amendment prohibits discrimination by securing "the equal protection of the laws" for every person. That would include religious discrimination. In a 1979 consultation on the issue, the United States commission on civil rights defined religious discrimination in relation to the civil rights guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

That commision defined religious discrimination as follows: "religious discrimination occurs when someone is denied " the equal protection of the laws, equality of status under the law, equal treatment in the administration of justice, and equality of opportunity and access to employment, education, housing, public services and facilities, and public accommodation because of their exercise of their right to religious freedom."

See??? I can use Wikipedia too!!

You see, if you are working for the taxpayers in an official capacity and you start praying to your diety...it is legally discriminatory to not pray to the diety of everyone else.

Wrong. That is not how religious discrimination is defined, legally. Religious discrimination is only a violation of equal protection when one's civil rights are violated on the basis of their religion and their expression of that religion.

There is no law that requires that we have to trot out a religious leader to pray to every known diety at a highschool football game or other public event.

There sure isn't.....I checked.

[Ovedya]

Cite the ruling then, so I can read exactly what the Supreme Court said on the issue. I'd like to know, because my daughter's second grade teacher needs to get herself a bunch of religious symbols to hang around her neck, next to her cross.

Literally, you can pick just about any religious expression case that goes above the State Judiciary to Federal Court. I'd say the Judge Moore case and his fight to hang the 10 Commandments was a good example. The 14th amendment detractors often cite its anti-discrimination rulings when its comes to personal and business case law.

I just googled "Judge Moore 14th Amendment" and this was the first thing to pop up...Judge Moore and the Godless 14th Amendment. I haven't read the whole thing but it appears to be before the actual case was heard. Either way...the 14th has an impact on those type of cases.

I know of absolutely no single case before the Supreme Court involving the First Amendment where the Court ruled that praying to a specific deity constitutes discrimination against those who pray to other deities.

[nikki1]

Blessings, Axxman

If you keep reading the constitution past #1 and #2, you will come across something called the 14th amendment. You see, the Fourteenth Amendment prohibits discrimination, including on the basis of religion. You see, if you are working for the taxpayers in an official capacity and you start praying to your diety...it is legally discriminatory to not pray to the diety of everyone else.

huh

[Guest shiloh357]

Cite the ruling then, so I can read exactly what the Supreme Court said on the issue. I'd like to know, because my daughter's second grade teacher needs to get herself a bunch of religious symbols to hang around her neck, next to her cross.

Literally, you can pick just about any religious expression case that goes above the State Judiciary to Federal Court. I'd say the Judge Moore case and his fight to hang the 10 Commandments was a good example. The 14th amendment detractors often cite its anti-discrimination rulings when its comes to personal and business case law.

I just googled "Judge Moore 14th Amendment" and this was the first thing to pop up...Judge Moore and the Godless 14th Amendment. I haven't read the whole thing but it appears to be before the actual case was heard. Either way...the 14th has an impact on those type of cases.

In other words, you can't actually cite the specific ruling you mentioned.

Judge Moore and his 10 Commandments plaque did not violate the 14th amendment. It did not violate anyone's civil rights or jeopardize anyone's rights to equal protection under the law. In no way was it discriminatory toward anyone on any level.

[other one]

If you are going to have religious freedom in this country, you do not want teachers leading prayer in our schools in any manor. What Gd or Lord will be allowed to be prayed to. If it is to Jesus or in His name then most of us would be happy, but there are many dominations that would give me pause as to how prayers might be worded that I might not want my kids to be exposed to.

Also I have acquaintances who are involved in groups that I would be somewhat afraid for them to be praying in our schools. Jehovah's witnesses might not be comfortable with some of the prayer structure of my Nazarene preachers prayers and most of the Southern Baptist might be offended if I lost control of my tongue and ripped off praying in tongues. And then there are those three WICCA witches that I once worked around in the town next to ours, and in a couple of print shops in the City there were some from the depths of the Dark Side that I'm not sure I'd be comfortable for them to even be in the school must less leading a prayer.

I agree with Believer on the first page, teach my kids reading writing math history and computers, and if they want to pray leave them alone.....

And that's the law in the USA and the Law in Oklahoma. Teachers or administrators can not and should not lead our kids in prayer, but neither should they nor do they have the right to stop them from praying any time they want with the exception of disrupting learning in the classroom.

If more than that is happening it is the local school boards that are the problem and you should vote them out of office and replace them with people who will give the students their constitutional rights........ and the teachers should just pray to themselves. God can understand a prayer in the mind and the devil can't, so we have a leg up on the old coot by just praying to ourselves and God.

[Guest shiloh357]

I agree with Believer on the first page, teach my kids reading writing math history and computers, and if they want to pray leave them alone.....

And that's the law in the USA and the Law in Oklahoma. Teachers or administrators can not and should not lead our kids in prayer, but neither should they nor do they have the right to stop them from praying any time they want with the exception of disrupting learning in the classroom.

If more than that is happening it is the local school boards that are the problem and you should vote them out of office and replace them with people who will give the students their constitutional rights........ and the teachers should just pray to themselves. God can understand a prayer in the mind and the devil can't, so we have a leg up on the old coot by just praying to ourselves and God.

Except that is not what the OP is about. The issue being raised is not about teachers leading public, audible prayer in the classroom.

The issue being raised is that even on their breaks, they are not allowed to assume any posture that would indicate they are praying, even ailenty to themselves such bowing their head, folding their hands and so on. They are not to be seen praying on campus or even at a private event on campus. It goes on to say that they cannot even reply to E-mails that mention "God bless you" or contain Bible verses. They are expected to conduct themselves in an "official capacity" if they are on campus for any reason whatsoever, and they are not allowed to express their faith in any manner even if it is quietly praying to themselves, else they will held in contempt of the court order.

That is plain wrong. From a constitutional standpoint, public property should be the safest place for a person to pray, but the liberals have turned the Constitution on its head and are using what was meant to protect our freedoms, as the instrument to strip us of those freedoms.

[OneLight]

I often have wondered how they deal with dedicated Muslim who are required to have their prayer mat with them and pray so many times throughout the day, toward the east? Funny how these issues are kept separated.

[Fez]

What about the workplace? We have a Muslim woman, and a good friend I might add, who prays at work in her office. She closes the door and does her thing. But then again I pray in my office as well, and often have a bible on my desk, and E sword is on my work computer.

My screen saver at work has a picture of me facing a large forest fire and the words - Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

We open every tribal community meeting with a prayer, and close with one. Three of my staff members attend my home group.

I will worship my God, and no one is going to stop me.