Animals & Un-natural ideas of man.

[nebula]

I am kind of getting the thinking that this is why a second person had to die.

I just read the article.

I'm surprised they kept the whale after it killed someone. Once an animal kills a human, it becomes dangerous.

As far as one of those whales being confined to a limited space but being well fed and taken care of by their trainers...instead of having to actually hunt for food(which is what they do naturally), and yeahh, probably sometimes they don't find it...their species still survives. Seems to me that your using human logic to apply to the animals natural order of things, hunt, procreate, and look so beautiful in the water.

Well, first of all, I could argue back that you are using human logic to assume the animal would rather hunt and be out free in the wild.

As for what I wrote, I was recalling something I read from a book from the perspective of the son of a zoo keeper - someone who had the opportunity to observe animals and understand their behavior. Unfortunately I don't have this book anymore else I'd dig it up and type out the paragraph (explained things better). But it was thought-provoking what it said.

Personally, I believe God had the right idea in the first place.

Which was what, exactly?

The Lord originally gave animals to man for companionship - before the fall. I believe it is in our nature to desire to be in unity with the animals. The trainers regard the animals in this way.

And now off to the book of Job to see if God did talk about these whales to Job.

No - unless that's what leviathan refers to, but no one truly knows what that animal is.

[Fez]

NO! animal should be locked up like this. NONE.

This is Orca Orcinus (bringer of death), the killer whale. It roams oceans, imagine the freedom, just imagine! Now imagine yourself locked up in what amounts, in perspective, to a refrigerator sized box for the rest of your life, and every now and again you are asked to roll over for the amusement of a bunch of beings you don't actually have any relationship with, and are not even of your species, and because you do someone tosses you a hamburger.

And don't tell me they are not intelligent animals with no social structure or language. Their social structure and family bonds are far more advanced and civilized than ours, and in the case of the humpback whale, the killer whale, and the elephant, their language is probably more advanced than ours!

The tragic death aside, LET THEM GO!!!!!!

[Shiloh62]

Hi,

Earlier today a trainer at Sea World in Florida lost her life while working with the Orcas(killer whales). My heart goes out to her family, her friends, and her co-workers. Especially when this should of never happened.

To keep an animal in an area so small(for our own amusement)...when they normally would have an ocean...well, it just dosen't seem right.

Does anyone think this is what God had in mind when He gave mankind "dominion" over the animals of this planet?

I don't. I see I'm going to have to check these verses again.

Its called animal slavery. I used to be naive and believe that in a circus, they trained elephants by rewarding them with peanuts. Annnhh! Ever heard of a bull hook? When you go to the circus, you will always see the ring leader with what looks like some kind of a cane, waving it around right? Do you know what that thing really is? When a trainer trains an elephant, he uses whats called a bull hook, which is a long rod with a metal hook on the end of it. If the elephant so much as breathes the wrong way, guess what his reward is? He gets that metal hook jammed into his foot, neck, side, or wherever the trainer feels like puncturing him, until he makes the elephant scream out in pain. On circus day, the trainer makes sure the elephants are scared to death before the show opens by giving them an intense bull hook session. When the show opens, all the ring leader needs to do is present the hook to the elephant, and magically never use it, and he can rest assure that that elephant fears for his life not to fall off of that tiny bicycle. Still want to go to the circus?

[nebula]

Well, not surprising, there's an article on this same subject:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100225/ts_csm/282809

[nebula]

This is Orca Orcinus (bringer of death), the killer whale. It roams oceans, imagine the freedom, just imagine! Now imagine yourself locked up in what amounts, in perspective, to a refrigerator sized box for the rest of your life, and every now and again you are asked to roll over for the amusement of a bunch of beings you don't actually have any relationship with, and are not even of your species, and because you do someone tosses you a hamburger.

But the question still goes unanswered - how do we know this is how they perceive things?

And don't tell me they are not intelligent animals with no social structure or language. Their social structure and family bonds are far more advanced and civilized than ours, and in the case of the humpback whale, the killer whale, and the elephant, their language is probably more advanced than ours!

I agree about intelligence, but how advanced are their cognitive functions?

Is the use of animals as beasts of burden likewise wrong?

(Note, I'm not trying to oppose your statements, but analyzing the situation.

[canuckamuck]

And don't tell me they are not intelligent animals with no social structure or language. Their social structure and family bonds are far more advanced and civilized than ours, and in the case of the humpback whale, the killer whale, and the elephant, their language is probably more advanced than ours!

I respect your passion, but the language being more advanced than our own is a bit over the top. I doubt they have an alphabet or a thesaurus

[EricH]

It would be dificult to make a case for against things like zoos, Seaworld, etc. from the Bible. Working with wild animals always comes at a risk to the handler. I am sorry for the loss

[Hunterpoet]

NO! animal should be locked up like this. NONE.

This is Orca Orcinus (bringer of death), the killer whale. It roams oceans, imagine the freedom, just imagine! Now imagine yourself locked up in what amounts, in perspective, to a refrigerator sized box for the rest of your life, and every now and again you are asked to roll over for the amusement of a bunch of beings you don't actually have any relationship with, and are not even of your species, and because you do someone tosses you a hamburger.

And don't tell me they are not intelligent animals with no social structure or language. Their social structure and family bonds are far more advanced and civilized than ours, and in the case of the humpback whale, the killer whale, and the elephant, their language is probably more advanced than ours!

The tragic death aside, LET THEM GO!!!!!!

I didn't know Killer Whales liked hamburgers.

[MorningGlory]

I am kind of getting the thinking that this is why a second person had to die. Years ago, the opportunity was there to do something...I have seen where there are some folks who bring a captive animal to their own environment and monitor it's change back to the...wild. It was about Orcas. Perhaps if these people had been contacted(and maybe they were, I don't know), or some other course of action taken to release the whale back to the ocean...then perhaps what happened at Sea World today, might not of happened. Perhaps this type of entertainment would of been stopped. I suppose that if people want to accept the human loss in return for some entertainment by some majestic animals of the sea,....well then, that is the choice that's made. Evidently so.

As far as one of those whales being confined to a limited space but being well fed and taken care of by their trainers...instead of having to actually hunt for food(which is what they do naturally), and yeahh, probably sometimes they don't find it...their species still survives. Seems to me that your using human logic to apply to the animals natural order of things, hunt, procreate, and look so beautiful in the water. Personally, I believe God had the right idea in the first place. To bad we people get in the way of all that beauty huh?

Guess you can probably see that this has sort of got me rockin so to speak. Maybe that's really a good thing.

And now off to the book of Job to see if God did talk about these whales to Job. I'm kinda betting He did. They are beautiful huh?

Goodnight, and God Bless yall.

Actually, this is the third death linked to that particular whale. He should be released back to the sea (but first he would have to be reintroduced to the wild.)

[Fez]

NO! animal should be locked up like this. NONE.

This is Orca Orcinus (bringer of death), the killer whale. It roams oceans, imagine the freedom, just imagine! Now imagine yourself locked up in what amounts, in perspective, to a refrigerator sized box for the rest of your life, and every now and again you are asked to roll over for the amusement of a bunch of beings you don't actually have any relationship with, and are not even of your species, and because you do someone tosses you a hamburger.

And don't tell me they are not intelligent animals with no social structure or language. Their social structure and family bonds are far more advanced and civilized than ours, and in the case of the humpback whale, the killer whale, and the elephant, their language is probably more advanced than ours!

The tragic death aside, LET THEM GO!!!!!!

so we can take it you are against all house pets? no dogs locked up? no cats locked up?

Couple of things....

Gator- Dogs and cats are so "modified", that most cannot survive without boundaries. And the comparison lacks similarity to any degree.

Nebula - This is an animal that knows no boundaries in it's natural habitat (besides that of food source and correct calving conditions - it's not a whale it's a dolphin). It spends it's natural life in a close family unit, roaming oceans with just "space" around it. (we has humans who live in our little boxes, could never begin to understand that sort of freedom). Imagine how it feels in a bathtub..... And saying "Once an animal kills someone it becomes dangerous" - all wild animals are dangerous to some degree or the other, there is no such thing as a "tame" tiger, there is a fearful, suppressed, conditioned wonder of nature, ruined by us, thats what there is.

God gave us dominion yes, but I don't think that included torture training, and mental oppression.

Canuck- humpback whales have a language we are only beginning to understand, and they "talk", and hear, across oceans, in a complex language. One starts a song (they actually sing), a new song, never heard before, and the others start practicing until they get it right. And then there is a choir (I have heard them while diving)

Cornell University has been studying elephant language for years now (check out their website). Elephants talk in a complex language we cannot hear - called infra-sound, too low on the dm for us to hear. In the Park I work in, a helicopter starts 45 miles away and elephants get agitated (they were caught using helicopters and darts in the first place).

So do I get upset when we lock these massive, free ranging animals in boxes for our amusement? YES!

And will I put my bible aside, and not search for any "relevant scripture" to try and appease this abomination we have wrought on God's creation? Yes.