Sabbath or Sunday ?

[Larry 2]

" In what scriptures are you blessed for doing what you think is a good faith effort?

1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about

[Guest Rain27]

Running Gator what is your take on this passage? Notice this is referring to the future long after the "death and resurrection" of Christ. This is obviously a physical Sabbath, a day of the week.

Matthew 24

15

Edited September 21, 2008 by Rain27

[OneLight]

Let the word speak for itself.

Romans 14:1-13

Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. Who are you to judge another

[Guest Rain27]

Running Gator what is your take on this passage? Notice this is referring to the future long after the "death and resurrection" of Christ. This is obviously a physical Sabbath, a day of the week.

Matthew 24

15

[Guest Rain27]

Let the word speak for itself.

Romans 14:1-13

Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. Who are you to judge another

[Guest Rain27]

So just to clarify, are you saying the Law does exist and that it does apply to the Jew but not to the Gentile Believer? The 7th day Sabbath still is around today but just for the Jews?

Israelites aren't just Jews by the way, they are also believing Gentiles... Always have been. The receivers of the Mosaic Law (called Israelites) were a "mixed multitude" of people, not Judah only. The ONLY place in the Old Testament where the "New Covenant" is specifically outlined is in Jeremiah 31 where it clearly states that The "New Covenant" belongs to Judah and Israel, no one else is listed.

Believing Gentiles were and are apart of Israel... That's my understanding.

I am saying that the Mosaic Law was/is for those under the Mosaic Covenant.

I believe that Christians do not fall under that covenant.

I also believe that if you are going to say that you fall under the Law (i.e. the Sabbath) that you should follow it all, not just a few of the 600 plus rules

I'm still unclear. Why did Jesus' refer to the Sabbath in the context of future events if the Sabbath is gone... because he was talking to Jews?

[Guest Rain27]

So just to clarify, are you saying the Law does exist and that it does apply to the Jew but not to the Gentile Believer? The 7th day Sabbath still is around today but just for the Jews?

Israelites aren't just Jews by the way, they are also believing Gentiles... Always have been. The receivers of the Mosaic Law (called Israelites) were a "mixed multitude" of people, not Judah only. The ONLY place in the Old Testament where the "New Covenant" is specifically outlined is in Jeremiah 31 where it clearly states that The "New Covenant" belongs to Judah and Israel, no one else is listed.

Believing Gentiles were and are apart of Israel... That's my understanding.

I am saying that the Mosaic Law was/is for those under the Mosaic Covenant.

I believe that Christians do not fall under that covenant.

I also believe that if you are going to say that you fall under the Law (i.e. the Sabbath) that you should follow it all, not just a few of the 600 plus rules

Again we're back to square one.

Do you keep the One or Two Laws that most Christians say is the only ones that matter?

Love the Lord and Love your brother as God loves you?

Do you execute those commandments 100%????

Do have any idols in your life? Smoking, drinking, sports, money etc? If you have even one then you do not "do" those to commandments perfectly.

Do you have any ill will toward anyone in your life? Even for one second? A parent, spouse, children, relatives, newscaster, revive sports team, neighbor, friend, foreign leader, actor??? Anyone that you've had not so pure a thought about today?

I can not judge you but I can speak for myself and I have broke the TWO GREATEST commandments multiple times today. I'm soooo thankful for God's merciful grace and forgiveness.

I'm not perfect, I cannot "do" all the Mosiac Law... All the time and execute it perfectly.

BUT NO MAN CAN KEEP ANY OF GOD'S LAW (NEW OR OLD) WITH OUT THE GRACE OF GOD.

I think we agree on this, so I don't understand how this keeps coming back to comments "do you keep all the Law, bet not" and that's a big problem. Unless you obey the Law perfectly then it pointless or even possibly dooming.

I keep the Mosiac Law (which includes the two greatest laws, by the way). In the same way that you keep whatever Laws you believe you've been called to keep. BY FAITH! Doesn't that make sense?

If your telling me I can't keep the Mosaic Law then where is the Grace in what you are claiming? Isn't Grace A HUGE key to the New Testament believer? By keeping the Mosiac (and New Testament Law) I am not covered in grace just the same as you?

It is not impossible to keep the Law (as long as it is not done in the flesh i.e. to earn salvation).

Anything is possible with Christ or is this untrue too? If I cannot keep the Law then this is yet another false statement...

Matthew 19

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying,

[Guest Rain27]

I do want to pause for a second to say that I have appreciated the over all respectfulness of the thread. I know it has gotten a bit heated at times but "Iron sharpens Iron" and I really am enjoying this discussion.

RunningGator, I've been in other forums on other topics and it gets so ugly sometimes, people start treating each other just awful. Thank you for not doing that. We may disagree and it does get heated in here but at the end of the day, I respect you and I understand your choices. I sense that you respect me too.

Please let me know if I personally offend you at any point because that would not be my intention.

God Bless...

Now back to the topic... HA!

Good-night.

[Guest yod]

Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before!

16Therefore, the promise comes by faith

I certainly agree with the verses you pasted, but those verses are not in the context of what we were debating; blessing of keeping the law. What you have given as proof is for all believers without the law, or observing a day; Abraham received these blessing through faith in what God had told him; not faith in what I think or what I determine is a good faith effort. When God told him something he believed it and we have the word today to tell us the same.

Am I understanding you right? Are you saying that because you want to observe the Sabbath since that was what we were talking about, and though you don't observe it as by law 100 % of the time, that you believe God is just looking for the good faith effort? You did quote that the promise comes by faith, but it must be according to the word of God and not the mind of man. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. I see very little justified in your arguments of keeping days, or is that something you wish to drop? Thanks in Jesus' name -

Abraham wasn't justified by the law is what I'm saying. He was justified by his trust in the Lord.

I've had seasons of complete observance of Shabbat and I've had seasons of not being able to. Though I was missing my Shabbat nap and a restful family day, there wasn't much difference in my relationship with Yeshua. I have found that I was able to observe Sabbath more fully when I went to a Sunday congregation instead of Shabbat but I still preferred the congregation that meets on Shabbat because they were a community that held Sabbath in high regard

I'm not advocating that observing either day makes one more pleasing to the Father if we aren't living a life that pleases him every day....but I still say that there was (and is) a special blessing to observing the Sabbath that can't be explained to the natural mind.

[Larry 2]

Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before!

16Therefore, the promise comes by faith

I certainly agree with the verses you pasted, but those verses are not in the context of what we were debating; blessing of keeping the law. What you have given as proof is for all believers without the law, or observing a day; Abraham received these blessing through faith in what God had told him; not faith in what I think or what I determine is a good faith effort. When God told him something he believed it and we have the word today to tell us the same.

Am I understanding you right? Are you saying that because you want to observe the Sabbath since that was what we were talking about, and though you don't observe it as by law 100 % of the time, that you believe God is just looking for the good faith effort? You did quote that the promise comes by faith, but it must be according to the word of God and not the mind of man. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. I see very little justified in your arguments of keeping days, or is that something you wish to drop? Thanks in Jesus' name -

Abraham wasn't justified by the law is what I'm saying. He was justified by his trust in the Lord.

I've had seasons of complete observance of Shabbat and I've had seasons of not being able to. Though I was missing my Shabbat nap and a restful family day, there wasn't much difference in my relationship with Yeshua. I have found that I was able to observe Sabbath more fully when I went to a Sunday congregation instead of Shabbat but I still preferred the congregation that meets on Shabbat because they were a community that held Sabbath in high regard

I'm not advocating that observing either day makes one more pleasing to the Father if we aren't living a life that pleases him every day....but I still say that there was (and is) a special blessing to observing the Sabbath that can't be explained to the natural mind.

Thanks Yod. I got much of the information I was seeking from Shiloh and have a better understanding of the reasoning behind it. To me it boils down more to fellowship than obligation and the separation somewhat from the orthodox demands of the traditional law. There is such a fine line sometimes between our observance of something in love, and that of obligation making it necessary for justification.