Sabbath or Sunday ?

[Guest yod]

I would be interested in knowing the Jewish names for each day of the week if anyone on worthy can help out here.

they are named "one, two, three, four, five, six, and seven"

I was reading a very lengthy number of thesis on the sabbath day change and the conclusions were very clear that God did institute the day change, i will find it and post the website name, but i cant link yet so maybe someone will do that for us.

you won't find that....and even if you did locate some article written by a greco-christian, it isn't supported by the scriptures and that's why no one can state the case from the bible.

Im sorry to rock your theological boat, i dont judge anyone for worshipping on saturday or any other day, just dont spread the error of seventh dayism.

when you call it "error", you have already judged.

There is no error about which day is the Sabbath. What you do with it is between you and the Lord. Legalism is exalting oneself or one's denomination through the use of theology and rules. From God's view none of us are taller than the rest....

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

Sabbath or Sunday?

As long as we worship God and God alone

I don't think it really matters to Him.

[Fez]

There is no error about which day is the Sabbath. What you do with it is between you and the Lord. Legalism is exalting oneself or one's denomination through the use of theology and rules. From God's view none of us are taller than the rest....

Amen Yod!

[Guest lovinghim4ever]

There is no error about which day is the Sabbath. What you do with it is between you and the Lord. Legalism is exalting oneself or one's denomination through the use of theology and rules. From God's view none of us are taller than the rest....

Amen Yod!

[JCISGD]

I would be interested in knowing the Jewish names for each day of the week if anyone on worthy can help out here.

they are named "one, two, three, four, five, six, and seven"

I was reading a very lengthy number of thesis on the sabbath day change and the conclusions were very clear that God did institute the day change, i will find it and post the website name, but i cant link yet so maybe someone will do that for us.

you won't find that....and even if you did locate some article written by a greco-christian, it isn't supported by the scriptures and that's why no one can state the case from the bible.

Im sorry to rock your theological boat, i dont judge anyone for worshipping on saturday or any other day, just dont spread the error of seventh dayism.

when you call it "error", you have already judged.

There is no error about which day is the Sabbath. What you do with it is between you and the Lord. Legalism is exalting oneself or one's denomination through the use of theology and rules. From God's view none of us are taller than the rest....

I disagree there Yod, the judging we are forbidden is calling another "Racca" or saying who will/wont go to heaven. The second belongs only to God and the first He would not do. We are to test the spirits and even correct and reprove each other.

You say there is no such biblical support as such, and yet you have never read the thesis i allude to? i assure you it has plenty of biblical support, but its aim is not to force it as we are not to tell others what days to observe, knowing that the Holy Spirit will lead as wisdom dictates in this direction.

I am not pro Sunday as Sabbath or Saturday as Sabbath, i am only contesting those who try to say it is only Saturday. It is a seventh part of each week and is 24 hours in duration, for reasons of health and opportunity to fellowship and recieve teaching etc. Jesus himself stated that the Priest were in violation of the Sabbath as they were workers in the house of the Lord, likewise modern day pastors are to have a day of rest seperate to the six days they minister or work on.

Really do the Jews have no such names as they do for seasons and months? you have me at a disadvantage there as i do not know if they do or dont.

[Guest yod]

I disagree there Yod, the judging we are forbidden is calling another "Racca" or saying who will/wont go to heaven. The second belongs only to God and the first He would not do. We are to test the spirits and even correct and reprove each other.

Not sure what that has to do with anything I wrote? You won't hear me saying we shouldn't test the spirits or reprove error.

All I'm saying is that we shouldn't beat each other up over this issue. While there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Sabbath begins Friday evening until Saturday evening, I don't support those who say you MUST keep the Sabbath as they do. The Sabbath has nothing to do with go-to-church day.

From what I can see in the scriptures, the jewish disciples faithfully observed the Sabbath and then as the evening came beginning the first day of the week (Saturday night) they would meet with their gentile brethren who had converted to the faith of Israel for a motza-shabbat fellowship. They probably had to do some work (traveling) to get there also.

So it probably was the tradition of the early faith community for the jews and the gentiles to meet after the Shabbat was over on the first day of the week. This does not change the Sabbath in any way.

At the same time, I find it intellectually dishonest when christians say accuracy about the Sabbath doesn't matter whatsoever. I can't go that far because it is a clear commandment spelled out in the Word of God. It is historically accurate that this commandment was changed by european theologians who were openly anti-semetic. It was officially changed for the specific purpose of separating the newly-invented religious institution they controlled from Israel.

So I may have strong convictions about what & when the Sabbath is but it serves no purpose to use it as a hammer for either the Saturday or the Sunday camp. Let those who love the Sabbath keep it faithfully as unto the Lord and let those who choose not to go on their merry way. I believe they are keeping the Spirit of the Torah even if they are ignorant of what God actually says about it

Yeshua Himself will straighten everyone out according to Isaiah 66:23

You say there is no such biblical support as such, and yet you have never read the thesis i allude to?

You'll find that I have mostly contempt for theological commentaries which propose things which aren't clearly spelled out in the scriptures. God is not hiding from us. If it is important, He tells us. I don't see any place in the scriptures where God over-rules Himself on the Sabbath so any christian commentary that would presume to make that case is just wrong. Period.

I am not pro Sunday as Sabbath or Saturday as Sabbath, i am only contesting those who try to say it is only Saturday.

then your argument is with the Scriptures....and God.

It is a seventh part of each week and is 24 hours in duration, for reasons of health and opportunity to fellowship and recieve teaching etc.

What?

that might be the practical results but the Sabbath is a statement to this planet that Elohim is the Master of Creation. There are benefits, of course, to the rest He gives but that is not the purpose.

Jesus himself stated that the Priest were in violation of the Sabbath as they were workers in the house of the Lord, likewise modern day pastors are to have a day of rest seperate to the six days they minister or work on.

Yeshua was stating that the Priests were in violation of the man-made legalism (exalting oneself) which is added to God commandment.

Really do the Jews have no such names as they do for seasons and months?

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, & 7 are names.

It's more of a study than I want to get into here but the hebrew aleph-bet is comprised of characters which are word pictures themselves and also letters, numbers, and even musical notation.

[JCISGD]

All i can say to that Yod is your wrong, may God enlighten you someday. There is ample biblical and historical evidence to prove beyond doubt that the Holy Spirit led the earliest of Christians to gather on the Lords day for their intimate fellowship.

Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath, has already said the Sabbath is for mans good and not the other way around. Again i am not against you for keeping Saturday as your Sabbath, just dont try making me or falsely claim that man instituted the Lords day observance.

I have based none of my arguement on comentaries but from the biblical proofs shown to me.

[BlindSeeker]

hi BS . . .

I know you probably mean nothing by it . . . but your exercised liberty or laziness to reduce my screen name to "BS" actually detracts from any desire to actually reason this with you.

how do explain that in other time zones to where early world inhabitated, it will not be the same seventh day that God rested on? The command therefore can only mean to keep a seventh part of each week as a sabbath.

Your question shows you are confusing the same time with the same day.

The cycle of each day is relative to those who experience it from their perspective locations. Each day for all begins and ends (biblically) with sunset, the duration of darkness of night, the rising and passing the sun westward to the setting thereof concluding the day and beginning the next.

If you were on one side of the earth and I was on the other, your day would eventually become my day simply because of the rotation of the planet. We both share the same day only at different intervals of time due to God

[JCISGD]

Hi BlindSeeker Sorry you think it either laziness or taking liberties to abbreviate board names i will use your full name in future. I dont think it laziness/liberty but it is uncharitable if you dislike it from me. I would not do this of your actual name.

I see your reasoning but the literal day that Jesus rested on after his creation Jn 1:1-3, is the seventh and a specific 24 hour period after every six days. So those holding to the only Sabbath being the seventh day forget that on the other side of the world although they might call it the seventh day it is not, it is actually the sixth or the first?

Sorry but the word Sabbath means a seventh part of, and can be applied to the division of an apple or one year in every seven.

Please remember that it is not me that is insisting on any particular day of Sabbath keeping, although i do believe we are not to stop assembling as some do, or to violate Gods law by working seven days a week.

There is biblical and historic proof that the disciples and early christians did not remain in observance of the work of creation on the seventh day, but eventually all observed the far greater work of Jesus, redemption, the defeat of death and hell and ressurection, on the first day of the week known as the Lords day.

But these proofs are deemed insufficent by those who hold to seventh day observance.

I have pointed to a very full and thorough treatment of biblical and historic proofs, but so far none have asked for it other than in unbelief or dismissal. I am not the best suited to address this topic fully, nor do i think it expedient when another has already done so. I will however lay out what i can on the grounds that is limited and along way from exhaustive. I left school at 15 yrs old having flunked most subjects and have no other formal education.

Acts 20:7 " Now on the first day of the week, when the discioples came together to break bread"....

This is communion in according to Christs commands, and is scriptural light to show this day was the day they broke bread and shared the cup. Remembering that no such ordinance was held in the synagogues nor would it have been tolerated.

Acts 20:7 "Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message"

Paul here is obviously preaching on the first day, and not travelling during it. Paul also made use of the seventh day to witness to the Jews in the synagogues, but he would have had no authority in the eyes of the Pharisees, indeed often being set upon and punished for preaching the gospel. This day then could not be the day early Christians under Paul atleast, gathered for intimate fellowship and Pauls uncensored preaching.

1 Cor 16:2 " On the first day of the week let each one of you lay aside something"....

This is in v1 an order to all the churches and is unlikely that they would have met on the seventh day and given tithes, then went home only to travel back on the first day to tithe again, some living many miles away. No the implication of scripture is that Paul met with the Church on the first day of week when in that location.

Rev 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lords day"

Here John has kept track of the days during his banishment and isolation on the Isle of Patmos and yet is recorded only of being found is in the Spirit on the Lords day. Is this is not implication by devine inclusion?

This being the day that Jesus rose to life, and now forever more , being rightfully claimed by Jesus as His Day. Reguardless of what any other nation might call it or do with it, the Lord of the Sabbath now claims it as above all other days. A day of rememberance of the mighty and wonderous work of God in redeeming mankind by his outstretched arm and His great power.

[Guest yod]

All i can say to that Yod is your wrong,

well of course that's all you can say since all you have is your opinion.

There is ample biblical and historical evidence to prove beyond doubt that the Holy Spirit led the earliest of Christians to gather on the Lords day for their intimate fellowship.

1. But that isn't what we're debating, is it? I already addressed that issue in my last post. However, if there was ample proof that the Sabbath was changed to Sunday, (which is what we are discussing) you would have shown it. You can't because it isn't in the scriptures.

2. And by the way, there is no way to prove that "the Lord's Day" is speaking of any other day than a Sabbath. There are no clues to exactly what day of the week Yochanan might have been referring to, so I will choose to assume it's the Sabbath since Sunday was never the Lord's "day" at any time previous to his writing this phrase.

Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath, has already said the Sabbath is for mans good and not the other way around.

And this is relevant to our conversation because....???

Thanks for agreeing that the Sabbath (seventh) was made for man. Not the First.

Again i am not against you for keeping Saturday as your Sabbath, just don't try making me or falsely claim that man instituted the Lords day observance

.

I've not even once tried to impose a Sabbath observance on you or anyone else in all my years at Worthy...but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the FACTs that:

a) The Sabbath is from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday

b) The Sabbath was changed to Sunday in the institution known as the "church" by gentiles (men presuming that authority) post-biblically through fiat of theology hundreds of years after the resurrection.

c) The "Lord's Day" is most likely a Sabbath and not a Sunday.

I have based none of my arguement on comentaries but from the biblical proofs shown to me.

which were all commentaries; or you could show the chapter & verse that literally says God changed the Sabbath to Sunday.