Sabbath or Sunday ?

[Larry 2]

name='yod' date='Sep 19 2008, 11:01 PM' post='1256950']

do you know anyone who can please God on their own merit? Can you find someone who has only righteous works in perfect obedience 100% of the time? Have you actually met a person who has never offended at even one point of the law?

That person doesn't need mercy or grace....but the rest of us make a good faith effort and rely on His mercy.

And I said that "I think" because there is room for people to have differing views than mine. This is what I think. Thanks for sharing what you think.

Quoting Yod - Can you find someone who has only righteous works in perfect obedience 100% of the time? Have you actually met a person who has never offended at even one point of the law?

Are you kidding me? - Even a babe in Christ could answer this. We all meet our Savior in His word.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Peter 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

And other than Jesus there are none other attempting to keep the law that do; they just prove that it is impossible to keep the law; they become self-righteous and oh, I have this wonderful feeling doing this or that; I'm so blessed for making an a good faith effort. No sir, the law had a purpose and in Galatians 3:24 we read what that was. "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

In Galatians 3:1-5.

1 "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth..."

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth He it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Again I repeat these two verses below concerning the law, and if applied to their proper use of Galatians 3:24 to bring us to Christ, the law will have done its job.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Luke 5:18 Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

You even admit you cannot have 100 % obedience to these things. then wake up and smell the coffee.

Galatians 4:9 "But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years."

Dear Yod, we already have all the blessings we can have and that is in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ."

Blessings in Jesus' name.

[BlindSeeker]

. . . wake up and smell the coffee.

are you asleep brother yod?

[Guest Rain27]

In the Lord's case, I think He is looking for the good faith effort and the ending result isn't as important as the sincere attempt to complete it. From His view high above us, not many of us look taller than the others. Those who put their faith in Him are hidden in His shadow.

AMEN! It's the intention of the heart. Was your intention to be obedient.

[Guest Rain27]

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (Oh I didn't mean to not obey your law God, I gave it my good faith effort).

Do you think Mary, Paul, Peter and other New Covenant believers of the New Testament will be judged by the Law?

They kept the Law, we have evidence of it in scripture.

I will type up a post that shows where believers kept the law AFTER the death of Christ.

[Guest Rain27]

BIBLICAL NEW TESTAMENT BELIEVERS KEPT THE LAW

So, why did Mary, Peter, and Paul keep the Law. There is evidence that they did... AFTER Jesus' death. Will they be saved by the Law or by Faith. I will give some examples.

Evidence of Mary keeping the Law AFTER CHRIST HAD DIED-

Luke 23

54 That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near.

55 And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. 56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

***I thought the Law (Sabbaths etc.) were nailed to the cross. Why were they still keeping the Sabbath? Will they be judged by keeping it? How did they keep the Sabbath according to the commandment IF it is impossible to keep???

Surely Christ would've explained that they didn't need to do such a thing after his death.

Evidence of Peter keeping the Kosher Law-

14 But Peter said,

Edited September 20, 2008 by Rain27

[Guest Rain27]

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Mary, Paul and Peter Kept the Law AFTER Christ's death... Will they be judged by their works or by their faith?

Works and Faith go hand in hand...

James 2

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them,

[Guest Rain27]

I keep the Sabbath in the same way King David (a sinner, He even intentionally sinned at times) kept the commandments of God. By Faith and Grace, in the Spirit. Knowing I'm forgiven.

I don't understand how this point is missed but maybe we can still work on it.

Yep, Christ repeated the Greatest Law which is taken straight from the Mosiac Law. Then he says the rest hangs on those two... Do you expect that He would've set down and repeated the entire Mosiac Law? They challenged him and he answered, quick and to the point and they couldn't argue the topic any further. They couldn't wait to label him a FALSE PROPHET, they couldn't wait to get the goods on Him but as usual they found no false teaching within him. If he had spoken the message of disobedience or abolish-ment of the ETERNAL Law of GOD (Himself) then he would've been a blasphemer, a false prophet... worthy of death by Mosiac Law. But he was found 100% innocent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The verse you quoted about days being esteemed differently (in context) has nothing to do with freedom to keep any ole' Holy Days. If Paul had taught this message he would've been guilty before the council of blaspheming the word of God but they found him innocent too.

It's hard to get around that isn't it? The doctrine (of most mainstream churches) that advocates doing away with obedience to the Mosaic Law, after Christ's death OR before... Was a blasphemous doctrine to the accusers of the time but these men are found INNOCENT... Meaning they NEVER blasphemed the word of God... What was the "word" they had at the time... Not the New Testament (which hadn't even been penned yet). Nope, they carried AND taught from the TORAH (1st 5 books of the Bible). How do you reconcile these things?

Do you expect that He would've set down and repeated the entire Mosiac Law?

no, because the Mosiac Law was for those under that covenant. What he did do was set up a standard well above the Mosiac Law, one that was about the heart and not about actions. While the Mosiac Law said dont cheat on your wife, Jesus said dont lust, while the Mosiac Law said dont murder, Jesus said dont hate.

I think that while we are not as far apart as it might seem, we will just have to agree to disagree on the finer details of what it means.

Here's what the Mosiac Law (God's Law) says about hating your brother:

Leviticus 19:17-18

You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.

Jesus taught the same message as God's Law. Not hating your brother in your heart was a commandment of the Mosiac Law, not some new idea of the New Testament. This is what Jesus meant when he said He did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it. To Fulfill is the Establish, Make Firm.

So Jesus made the Law firm, sturdy... he established it, HE DID NOT DESTROY IT!

Matthew 5:17 (King James Version)

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Jesus did not come to destroy the Law... If he had, he would've been found GUILTY before His death, this teaching is against Mosiac Law (thus Jesus would've been a false prophet) and our sin sacrifice had a big blemish.

[Guest Rain27]

Love walks hand-in-hand with keeping His commandments. If we love Him we will seek to do His will in every way...in all things. Not in a legalistic ritual of rules and regs but kind of like the way we want to please our best friends, our beloved family, or our spouse.

Lovin' it! I agree.

Think about all the Laws/rules we currently follow (at least as best as we can)...

Don't speed, stop if the light turns red, slow down if it's yellow and go if it's green. Put your trash out on Thursdays, pay the rent. Wear your seat belt, don't open your neighbors mail, keep your clothes on in public, renew your license, get your emissions done, don't murder someone, don't cheat on your taxes, show up for jury duty, don't eat expired food, don't cross a double yellow line, pull off to the side of the road if you hear sirens, pay your debts, don't steal.... on and on (I just named 15+ laws that we probably already follow), I bet I could come up with 600+ if I had the time.

Are those to hard to live by??? Nope, we follow these rules with out question and they are not too many or too complicated they are helpful to our health and or society. Without them we would live in chaos, anarchy.

BUT when it comes to God's Law... it is too much, too many, too complicated, too burdensome...

I guess I just don't get the logic.

this is where we differ...it is not too complicated nor too burdensome to keep God's law, we just disagree on what that law is. There are certian parts of the Law given by Moses that you not only dont keep, but that you dont even try to keep. You set one day above the rest and that is your right and I am glad that you do. I choose not to, because God has given me that right. I choose to honor God each and every day and not make one more important than the other.

If I am wrong in this I am sure that God will explain it to me when I get to heaven.

I do keep the Law, to keep is to guard or protect, NOT to execute it perfectly.

Do you keep the New Testament Law Perfectly?

You are right, we all have a right to choose what ever we want and we do disagree on what the Law is. We both have freewill.

I honor God everyday too. However I will not view the Sabbath as just the same as any other day... This would be making the Sabbath "common" which in Hebrew is the word "profane."

Now if you do not believe that the Mosiac Law still applies then this verse won't matter to you and I respect that, we each have our own choice but to me the Law still applies, so maybe this will help you understand where I am coming from.

***The curse or penalty of the Law (death) is gone but not the original commandment:

Exodus 31:14

You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.

I believe that if I were to say that the Sabbath no longer applies and that the 7th day is no different then any other day of the week, I would be profaning it or making it common, I choose not to do this, I continue to keep it Holy. Holy in Hebrew means "set-apart" so I treat the 7th day differently the all other days of the week.

[Larry 2]

Rain27

Do you think Mary, Paul, Peter and other New Covenant believers of the New Testament will be judged by the Law?

They kept the Law, we have evidence of it in scripture.

I will type up a post that shows where believers kept the law AFTER the death of Christ.

Quoting Rain27 - Do you think Mary, Paul, Peter and other New Covenant believers of the New Testament will be judged by the Law?

Response - No I do not other than for reward if done rightly, but I do apprecaite you giving me the evidence - Thank you in Jesus' name

[Guest yod]

" In what scriptures are you blessed for doing what you think is a good faith effort?

1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about