Burn a Qu'ran Day...

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

I believe that God will work with everyone who is not righteous until they have grown and matured into heavenly perfection.

You have a problem then because what you are stating is that God accepts your Righteous works and not the completed work of Christ which you claim Saves.

There is a heavy contradiction there especially when God say's all your works are filthy rags (menstrul cloth's).

The Word of God is built up Line upon Line Precept upon Precept.

peace,

dave

[Guest]

....I don't accept universalism because it feels good, I accept it because anything else is antithetical to love and logic....

Sin

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

And Love

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16-18

And Sin

Of sin, because they believe not on me; John 16:9

And Wrath

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:46-48

If You Love Folk, Tell Them The Truth

>>>>>()<<<<<

That being said, this does not mean that everyone gets a free pass to paradise. I believe that God will work with everyone who is not righteous until they have grown and matured into heavenly perfection....

Truth

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Is Found In Jesus

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

Not In The Prideful Words Of Men

And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them.

[And the people gave a shout, saying, It is the voice of a god, and not of a man.

And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

But the word of God grew and multiplied. Acts 12:21-24

>>>>>()<<<<<

Believe

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

I am that bread of life. John 6:47-48

And Be Blessed Beloved

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Revelation 22:13-15

Love, Joe

[Guest shiloh357]

The Noachian laws are laws which Jews believe nonjews have to follow in order to be righteous. The first sentence says that a heathen (nonjew) is executed for breaking the Noahide Laws. One of the Noahide laws is idolatry. To a Talmudic Jew, believing Jesus Christ is divine is idolotry because Christians are worshiping a man. Therefore, according to the Talmud, a Christian should be killed for breaking the Noachian Laws.

Christians are included as heathens. A Cuthean is a Gentile.

Wrong. A "Cuthean" is a Samaritan. So that pretty much torpedoes your assertion that this is aimed at Christians.

[nebula]

I Googled Talmud God Has no son and got 2,410,000 results. I don't know how good those results are but I found some.

Here is the first one to get you started.

The Unity of God. God Has No Son

http://books.google.com/books?id=v2uXn-8ZB-oC&pg=PA303&lpg=PA303&dq=talmud+god+has+no+son&source=bl&ots=9qs8e8xzhR&sig=04kp2t6xN-ZJ-YEIFCJmqI9yel8&hl=en&ei=L59bTP6YBsP48AbZ-Ln6AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=talmud%20god%20has%20no%20son&f=false

Thank-you!

Now that wasn't so hard, was it?

Why didn't you do that at the beginning?

[Guest shiloh357]

After 1100 AD, the Messianic interpretations of the Talmud were scrubbed in order to prevent Jews from seeing Jesus as the Messiah. This was a response to Christian persecution of Jews. The Talmud is not "anti-Christian" per se. Much of what is written in the Talmud does not even have Christians in mind.

Much of the animosity of Jews towards Christians stemmed from Christians viewing Jews as a cursed race and as an eternal emblem of God's contempt. They simply projected their hatred of Jews on to God and the Jews have been forced to bear that stigma for centuries. As a result some in the church began assigning to themselves the titles that God gave to Israel. Suddenly Christians began teaching that they were the true Jews and that the Church is Israel. All of that nonsense religious bigotry began out of a deadly, bloodthirsty hatred of Jews, and not from the teachings of Christ.

We see that same hatred perpetuated by those who try to cast the Talmud as an "ant-Christian" document when it is isn't. The Talmud is not perfect and I don't pretend to be able to defend everything it says, but neither will I sit here and allow others to assign false values to it or attribute sentiments that it does not possess.

[Guest shiloh357]

http://www.schechter.edu/AskTheRabbi.aspx?ID=477

CUTHEAN

May 2009

Rabbi Monique Susskind Goldberg

Cuthean

Question:

What exactly is a Cuthean?

Answer:

In 720 B.C.E. when the Assyrian kings invaded the kingdom of Israel, the Ten Tribes living there were exiled to Assyria and different people were brought in their stead to the cities of Samaria, among them the Cutheans. In 2 Kings 17:24-41 we are told that the Cutheans converted to Judaism out of fear of lions that attacked them, but according to the Bible, they continued to worship their idols (v.33).

The Talmudic Sages are divided on the question whether the Cutheans are true converts or only converted out of fear (see Babylonian Talmud Kiddushin 75b). In later Talmudic times they were considered a community of idolaters [Talmud Hullin 6a] and Cuthean were not allowed to marry Israelites (see Babylonian Talmud Ketubot 29a). In the printed edition of the Talmud, words like "goy" or "nokhri", two terms meaning non-Jew, were changed by censors to the word

[MorningGlory]

No, you understand English just fine, Cobalt. I admit I am sometimes abrasive and opinionated . So you don't consider this...."The discord is a result of your sometimes less-than-honest tactics and poor behavior. " to be a slam? Wow. Actually, if that's your opinion that's fine. When I say 'Life is not a popularity contest' I really mean it. I don't 'go along to get along' ,as we say down here, unless I agree with what's being said. Isn't it wonderful to live in a country that has freedom of speech? And I have no problem with others' heated statements being directed at me; that's just life.

I have had disagreements at times with just about everyone who is a member of this board that I can think of, even those that I consider my friends. That is bound to occur in just about any atmosphere when more than one human being is involved. But never did I think to myself that I should revel in those disagreements and think to myself that life isn't a popularity contest and I shouldn't be concerned when I disagree with someone. I always assess why the disagreement exists. Is it them? Is it me? Is it somewhere in between? And always those assessments are accompanied with a sense of sorrow and frustration because the disagreement exists. Discord benefits no one and serves no creative purpose. It can often be used as a very effective tool by the Enemy to drive a wedge into the Body and cause further problems and I guarantee you that he celebrates every time it happens.

I know of several people here who can communicate almost any idea or concept with grace and respect. I unfortunately am not one of them. I have agreed with you on occasion. I have disagreed with you on occasion. I have found some of your posts disturbing and lacking in grace. You have told me you found some of mine to be of the same caliber. And I can remember agreeing with you about that on a couple of occasions and apologizing to you openly for my behavior. It comes to mind that you have never, in my recollection, returned the favor. Everyone errs. It is a fact of life. The difference comes in what one does about it.

Okay. I remember you apologizing (don't remember about what) but, truthfully Cobalt....I don't really remember disagreeing with you except on a few occasions. I try to assess the same things (is it them or me...or both?) and sometimes it IS me. If there was an occasion when I should have apologized and didn't then I'll do so now. After nearly 21,000 posts....it's hard to remember. But the fact is people disagree and I, for one, am not going to anguish over it or worry if someone doesn't approve of me. Life is too short to worry about stuff like that.

[other one]

The Talmud does say God has a son. So I stand corrected on that one.

According to the Talmud Jesus did not/will not fulfill the law (Torah) Israel did/will.

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate

[nebula]

2 Kings 17:24 - Then the king of Assyria brought people from Babylon, Cuthah, Ava, Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel; and they took possession of Samaria and dwelt in its cities.

I guess "Cuthean" comes from them?

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

And also with you.

I apologize for not getting back to you on the PM, I do this (and other forums) in my spare time, so I don't always have the time go through and respond to every message addressed to me in a timely manner, and sometimes not at all.

I believe that God will work with everyone who is not righteous until they have grown and matured into heavenly perfection.

You have a problem then because what you are stating is that God accepts your Righteous works and not the completed work of Christ which you claim Saves.

No. There is none righteous, not one. However, through spiritual baptism God claims us as his children and we are clothed in His righteousness. My quote above has nothing to do with "works" and I did not mean to imply such. Christ calls us to be perfect just as our heavenly father is perfect. And as God is the perfect father, He will work with (purify) His children (all of us) until they have grown and matured into righteousness.

There is a heavy contradiction there especially when God say's all your works are filthy rags (menstrul cloth's).

The Word of God is built up Line upon Line Precept upon Precept.

peace,

dave

Indeed, but I am not suggesting that works alone will save. Only that God will purify us until we are perfect as our father in heaven is perfect.

Grace to you,

You've got a problem though dear friend,

And as God is the perfect father, He will work with (purify) His children (all of us) until they have grown and matured into righteousness.

No where in the Bible are non believers, the unrighteosu and unfaithful here on earth, called the children of God , they are called the sons of men, and Jesus in fact states that we must be born again to enter the Kingdom of heaven.

However, let's go back for a moment;

I believe that God will work with everyone who is not righteous until they have grown and matured into heavenly perfection.

No. There is none righteous, not one. However, through spiritual baptism God claims us as his children and we are clothed in His righteousness. My quote above has nothing to do with "works" and I did not mean to imply such. Christ calls us to be perfect just as our heavenly father is perfect.

These two statements are not mutually exclusive they are contradictory.

What is Spiritual Baptism? Explain.

How are we to achieve this perfection that you speak of, will it be with the help of Jesus maturing us to perfection?

The Word is ignorant of this Doctrine that you describe.

Matter of fact, the Word indicates that in order to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect we must have Faith in the completed work of Christ and His nature. It is not inherited merely because we are human and part of the creation. It is Imparted in rebirth and we partake of this nature which rises up in the life of Christ. There's nothing we can do and in order to Live and not die, we must be partakers of the imparted nature of Christ. Elsewise, we remain in the grave, dead in our works and flesh.

Abraham did this and lived;

Joh