The Biblical gift of tongues

[OneLight]

Upon review of many other versions of the bible, the word "groan" is used in one form or another, so this is not what I would like to address. What I am asking is if you believe that the Holy Spirit no longer intercedes for us in this manner? Do you see this as something different then tongues?

Onelight I am sorry for being such a poor communicator! I do not mean to be so- I just don't think or speak like most people!

Very possibly retarded in the effort of communication...

You know when your own Mother says you are the most different type of person that she have ever met... personally you know your up against it with the rest of the peoples! Like another said here that I use Scripture to support my topics as though they were misconstrued or manipulated for my own purpose... but I carefully understand their place in the Fathers Word contextually and then receive in my heart established truths that I can relate to presently and that is how I live within Scripture and Scripture lives within me.... relationally it develops the Spiritual essence of God's being for I understand He is before all this (creation) and is not bound by it. Has in fact incorporated His Word with the created fibers so that truth is seen in its focused design actually woven into every portion so that chance is completely, in the bounds of sanity, ruled out ... surely we are without excuse if we do not know Him!

This is the answer then I gave to this question above- I reason precept upon precept I am a foundational thinker line upon line ...

This is the precepts I see as to what the Spirit is doing and the reason for the doing in the verse you have spoken of:

---We all know we live in light spiritually but here the practice of sins still cast shadows upon the truth of God... this corruption runs so much in permeation of creation

Gal 5:7-10

7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

NKJV

Precept 1- we are so surrounded by sin (our flesh and the world) the need of COMPLETE renewing of the mind is often overlooked and we accept wrong concepts and presuppositions so we do not see as we should ...

The Holy Spirit then needs to intercede as the verse says.

our Father intends to burn it completely up in His Holy Love of Righteousness ( all of it - the heavens for satan was there, the earth for we see his work everyday!) Paul speaks of it as in a mirror dimly...

Precept 2- most of Christianity today does not reckon in their minds the importance of eternal things that which God intends to keep eternally- verses- that set aside for burning up. This as well clouds the minds and understanding so that we do not see as we ought. For if He sees the things as no worth set aside to be destroyed and we spend all our energies gathering for our enjoyment or security... where are we in our minds with His mind? How shall we ask properly if we think differently?

I believe the same is occurring in His Word as to understanding varied and divided in the many who know Him to be their Lord. Doctrine is not bad nor should it be divisive yet... I believe we see this in the communication here as to Christ's talk with Nicodemus

John 3:12-13

12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

NKJV

Precept 3 we try to bring with the understanding of His Word things that do not figure into eternity. So that by holding on to them and demanding the answers with their acceptance already within us. We actually prevent the concepts and words to be brought into our understanding so that we might pray as we ought in the power of The Holy Spirit... This is what I believe causes the groanings of Our Lords Spirit! Seen here in this way

James 4:1-5

4 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? 2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. 4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"?

NKJV

It makes me groan to consider the Holy Spirit of God within and the truth of the above! The greatest guest I shall ever know within my most personal rooms of being with groaning to The Father and The Son for I cannot ask for myself, do to the error that I myself do not see...

My conclusion to these precepts-

so pointedly I believe that is what this Scripture above is agreeing with and is saying so in the defined form of groaning (it is intense request purely given in righteous format...) but also The Spirit is still aiding our poor abilities to see, speak and understand... Love Steven

To be honest, my friend, the groaning is not the groaning from the Lord upon our misunderstanding, but the Holy Spirit praying for us in a manner that we can not repeat nor understand, offering up to the Father what He knows we need to be asking for. Seeing in a mirror dimly, or a glass darkly, speaks to how we understand what He is telling us through His Spirit, not as seeing God burn anything. To be honest again, I have a very hard time understanding the point you are trying to make here. To you, it is perfectly clear, but I can not see what you are saying.

[Fez]

To be honest, my friend, the groaning is not the groaning from the Lord upon our misunderstanding, but the Holy Spirit praying for us in a manner that we can not repeat nor understand, offering up to the Father what He knows we need to be asking for. Seeing in a mirror dimly, or a glass darkly, speaks to how we understand what He is telling us through His Spirit, not as seeing God burn anything. To be honest again, I have a very hard time understanding the point you are trying to make here. To you, it is perfectly clear, but I can not see what you are saying.

I really think Spurgeon got it right when he said "there are prayers that break the backs of words".

There are times when we are so confused, in grief, do not understand what is happening, that we just run out of, or don't know the words to pray. (I have been there).

I believe that it is during these times that the Holy Spirit prays for us. Do we "transfer" by praying in tongues then? I am not sure.

I have only prayed in tongues once, and that was when I was so in the Spirit that it just flowed out of me. I was alone, but had run out of worship words because I had been worshiping so long... It was a completely involuntary thing.

[Botz]

Why is the subject of tongues usually end up being the foremost in importance?

Because if someone cannot believe the Holy Spirit will give anyone the least of the gifts, how can they desire the greatest gifts? NOw Paul makes it clear that all gifts are used for edification, and the Kingdom of God comes in power! Now He also says in 1 cor 14:1 pursue love and be zealous for Spiritual gifts. Now if someone cannot accept that tongues exist, they cannot accept that any of the gifts exist. If You deny the least of the gifts how can you even begin to touch the greatest? Now if every believer was equipped and was zealous for the things of the Spirit, That would have a lot more impact on the body, and help it grow in the power of the Spirit! But if someone can't accept the least of the gifts, they will never accept the greater gifts.

Really good point Joshua.

What I can never understand is why anyone would refuse or deny spiritual empowering for the edification of the Body and to the glorification of the L-rd.....and try to use the Word of G-d against the Word of G-d to attempt to prove it is no longer necessary or evidenced, when the exact opposite is true....and as Onelight says, there is and always has been counterfeit and mis-use of the gifts, in particular tongues, but that in no way negates what is clearly placed in the Scriptures.

I guess many Believers choose to live a life of 'grace and truth', but often miss out on the 'faith and power' aspect, and inadvertently choose to live in a state of dis-belief. If your are brought up this way, or saved in an assembly that does not believe in the gifting G-d has distributed to the Body, then it will be reflected in your personal out-look....my first encounter with Believers, apart from hearing the Gospel, was from hearing a demon scream and leave someone, and the gifts were presented as part of the whole package and not swept under some spiritualised carpet....so the faith level to seek G-d for these things was as it should be, because the Body was functioning as intended.

[Fez]

Why is the subject of tongues usually end up being the foremost in importance?

Because if someone cannot believe the Holy Spirit will give anyone the least of the gifts, how can they desire the greatest gifts? NOw Paul makes it clear that all gifts are used for edification, and the Kingdom of God comes in power! Now He also says in 1 cor 14:1 pursue love and be zealous for Spiritual gifts. Now if someone cannot accept that tongues exist, they cannot accept that any of the gifts exist. If You deny the least of the gifts how can you even begin to touch the greatest? Now if every believer was equipped and was zealous for the things of the Spirit, That would have a lot more impact on the body, and help it grow in the power of the Spirit! But if someone can't accept the least of the gifts, they will never accept the greater gifts.

Really good point Joshua.

What I can never understand is why anyone would refuse or deny spiritual empowering for the edification of the Body and to the glorification of the L-rd.....and try to use the Word of G-d against the Word of G-d to attempt to prove it is no longer necessary or evidenced, when the exact opposite is true....and as Onelight says, there is and always has been counterfeit and mis-use of the gifts, in particular tongues, but that in no way negates what is clearly placed in the Scriptures.

I guess many Believers choose to live a life of 'grace and truth', but often miss out on the 'faith and power' aspect, and inadvertently choose to live in a state of dis-belief. If your are brought up this way, or saved in an assembly that does not believe in the gifting G-d has distributed to the Body, then it will be reflected in your personal out-look....my first encounter with Believers, apart from hearing the Gospel, was from hearing a demon scream and leave someone, and the gifts were presented as part of the whole package and not swept under some spiritualised carpet....so the faith level to seek G-d for these things was as it should be, because the Body was functioning as intended.

There you go!

It is mostly about faith and the power of God is it not?

We have to be careful to try and impose our opinions on God's truth because it is what we have been taught, or pervades the fellowship we attend.

Thats why always going back to scripture and the cross is so important!

[Joshua-777]

Why is the subject of tongues usually end up being the foremost in importance?

Because if someone cannot believe the Holy Spirit will give anyone the least of the gifts, how can they desire the greatest gifts? NOw Paul makes it clear that all gifts are used for edification, and the Kingdom of God comes in power! Now He also says in 1 cor 14:1 pursue love and be zealous for Spiritual gifts. Now if someone cannot accept that tongues exist, they cannot accept that any of the gifts exist. If You deny the least of the gifts how can you even begin to touch the greatest? Now if every believer was equipped and was zealous for the things of the Spirit, That would have a lot more impact on the body, and help it grow in the power of the Spirit! But if someone can't accept the least of the gifts, they will never accept the greater gifts.

Really good point Joshua.

What I can never understand is why anyone would refuse or deny spiritual empowering for the edification of the Body and to the glorification of the L-rd.....and try to use the Word of G-d against the Word of G-d to attempt to prove it is no longer necessary or evidenced, when the exact opposite is true....and as Onelight says, there is and always has been counterfeit and mis-use of the gifts, in particular tongues, but that in no way negates what is clearly placed in the Scriptures.

I guess many Believers choose to live a life of 'grace and truth', but often miss out on the 'faith and power' aspect, and inadvertently choose to live in a state of dis-belief. If your are brought up this way, or saved in an assembly that does not believe in the gifting G-d has distributed to the Body, then it will be reflected in your personal out-look....my first encounter with Believers, apart from hearing the Gospel, was from hearing a demon scream and leave someone, and the gifts were presented as part of the whole package and not swept under some spiritualised carpet....so the faith level to seek G-d for these things was as it should be, because the Body was functioning as intended.

[enoob57]

Be Blessed and learn to "trust in the Lord with all your heart and not lean onto your own understanding".

This truth you have spoken of must be salted with this truth

Rom 12:2

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

KJV

2 Cor 13:5-6

5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?