Can Omniscience and free will coexist?

[MorningGlory]

Anyone have any thoughts?

Here is what I read somewhere and I agree with it.

"For example, if I predicted that a coin would land on heads, and it does, that doesnt mean that I am omniscient or that i effected the outcome of the coin toss. However if i am omniscient, and i know the coin will land on heads, then no matter what, the coin will land on heads. There is no other option, and this is why free will cannot exist with omniscience. If i claim to be omniscient and i say that it will land on heads, and it lands on tails, i was wrong and i am not omniscient."

God (The Father) is not bound by space and time. When you say that he knows what you will decide next week, doesn't really mean that he knows you well ehough to know what you will or might do, it means he saw what you did next week; it's totally your/our decision, he can simply see the future as he gave John the privilage to do when he was being shown Revelation.

Some people say that all that is happening is Gods plan for he told us about it 2,000 years ago...... but I say he simply looked into the future and saw what we (or Satan) did and told us about it so we won't loose heart and kill our faith.

.

Chew on that thought for a while.

That's a very good explanation of the issue, O.O. Coexistence isn't a problem as long as one understands the way God works.

[RevelationWriter]

~ There is no such thing as (FREE) will.

We have a Will To Choose.

But, our Will is not (FREE) of any choice. -

God gives Commands. "Thou Shalt Not".

God doesn't say, Thou Shall Choose.

[Guest Aiwa]

"For example, if I predicted that a coin would land on heads, and it does, that doesnt mean that I am omniscient or that i effected the outcome of the coin toss. However if i am omniscient, and i know the coin will land on heads, then no matter what, the coin will land on heads. There is no other option, and this is why free will cannot exist with omniscience. If i claim to be omniscient and i say that it will land on heads, and it lands on tails, i was wrong and i am not omniscient."

That is a very thoughtful question, JD. I wondered about it for some time. The way I think lately is thus:

Physics tells us that all observations should be relativized to some observer. (If a train is moving 60mph relative to someone on the ground, it might be stationary relative to someone on the train.) So, just because X is omniscient shouldn't mean that Y can't have free will. After all, the information X possesses is not available to Y, so that information cannot enter into Y's causal processes.

The harder question is whether or not omniscience and freedom can be true of the same individual. Again, there is no logical contradiction here. Imagine a brain operation whereby someone cut out the bits that connected actions with perceptions. Then it seems you might act randomly regardless of what you know.

[nChrist]

God's foreknowledge of all doesn't hint that we were any way pre-programmed to make certain choices or form certain beliefs. If God had wanted pre-programmed robots, He could have easily created them - but He didn't. We do have free will, and it doesn't bother me a bit that God already knows what I'll choose or believe.

Take salvation as an example. Did you reject the Good News several times, or did you accept it the first time you heard it? God didn't control your answer, but He did know what your answer would be each time you heard the Good News. We think about God as humans, and the first thing we should know is that God's Ways are higher than ours, and His ways are past finding out. Our imaginations aren't vivid enough to understand the mysteries of God, and that's just fine for me. I love the fact that my God is bigger, more powerful, and more majestic than anything I can dream of. I even like the fact that nothing can be hidden from Him. These facts help me in my daily relationship with Him. Everything about Him is BIG, and that certainly includes His Grace, His Mercy, and His Love.

[Guest]

Wise Men Choose Yeshua (Jesus)

His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Matthew 25:21

Others Choose Not

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:14

>>>>>()<<<<<

.... Thou Shall Choose....

Ah

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: Deuteronomy 30:19

Yes

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. Joshua 24:15

Choose

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:26-29

Life

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16-18

And Bless His Holy Name

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:19-21

Bless Him

Love, Joe

[My experience]

Scripture!

[enoob57]

God's foreknowledge of all doesn't hint that we were any way pre-programmed to make certain choices or form certain beliefs. If God had wanted pre-programmed robots, He could have easily created them - but He didn't. We do have free will, and it doesn't bother me a bit that God already knows what I'll choose or believe.

Take salvation as an example. Did you reject the Good News several times, or did you accept it the first time you heard it? God didn't control your answer, but He did know what your answer would be each time you heard the Good News. We think about God as humans, and the first thing we should know is that God's Ways are higher than ours, and His ways are past finding out. Our imaginations aren't vivid enough to understand the mysteries of God, and that's just fine for me. I love the fact that my God is bigger, more powerful, and more majestic than anything I can dream of. I even like the fact that nothing can be hidden from Him. These facts help me in my daily relationship with Him. Everything about Him is BIG, and that certainly includes His Grace, His Mercy, and His Love.

What breaks my heart continually before the Lord is also in the smallness of things also this is true... for He is the Alpha and Omega also the (Leastest ) and the Greatest the All in All "ALL" of the eternities. Our daily walk is the Revelation of said truths... written before the understandings in order to know and be still in the Glory and Grace of His appearing in the Man Christ Jesus... Love Steven

[Fez]

Just because God knows the history of your future does not mean He will chose to change it.

He gave us the directions in the bible, what we do with them is up to us.

However, if he so choses He can and will change our future for His design.

We put ourselves in boxes, not God.

[Guest]

What really interests me is to know if you guys believe we (or better: you ) will have

free will in Heaven.

What does Scripture say about this?

Ever Been In Love?

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deuteronomy 6:4-5

No?

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. Revelation 22:3-4

Got Family?

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. John 3:7

No?

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 8:15

>>>>>()<<<<<

Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6

Love, Joe

[nChrist]

We won't care about free will and choices in Heaven. We will be delivered from the very presence of sin and evil. God began a good work in us that He promised to complete, and He will give us a glorified body at the Rapture.

1 Corinthians 15:50-58 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

We will be the innocent perfection that God intends for us to be - delivered completely to a state of constant joy, happiness, and rejoicing with our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. In this short life, we are at war with our old man of sin, but we will leave our old man of sin behind when we leave this short life. It's hard to imagine what peace that will bring.

Revelation 21:4-6 KJV And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 21:10-23 KJV 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. 16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. 17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. 18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. 19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; 20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. 21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Revelation 22:1-8 KJV And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. 6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.