Are we punished for sinning?

[Fez]

This from another thread, so I thought I would put it out for discussion

Butero, on 30 November 2010 - 10:05 PM, said:

Fez, on 30 November 2010 - 09:47 PM, said:

Butero, on 30 November 2010 - 09:32 PM, said:

Fez, on 30 November 2010 - 09:25 PM, said:

We are punished by our sins, not for them.

Butero

Mankind is still being punished for the original sin that took place in the garden, and people are in hell today because they sinned. Of course we are punished for our sins.

Fez

Think about the quote a little deeper. I know the scriptural definition as well as you do.

Butero

Thats ok Fez. This is more of a theological argument, and NewlySavedGirl is seeking advise for a problem. I will just drop it.

Fez

Agreed! Maybe it would be interesting to open a thread and discuss sin and punishment. We might all gain a little more knowledge from it. Or we could start a fight (Not )

So below is my first rebuttal..

[Fez]

For believers in Jesus, all our sin

[other one]

Fez, it may be semantics.... God does discipline us for sins we repeatedly commit in the flesh. Some people would consider that as punishment...... I'd have to really study on that.

I do agree that our sins punish us also....... but I know from experience that God does some things that many of us would consider punishment for some of our failures when we persist in repeating them..... and that discipline is not always a direct result of what we did wrong

One warning I'd give to you all...... if he tells you to do something and you say no........ look for your whole life to fall apart until you come to your senses.

I hope that makes sense, cause it's border line with me LoL.

[Guest]

For believers in Jesus, all our sin past, present and future has already been punished on the cross. As Christians, we will never be punished for sin. That was done once for all.

Romans 8:1 There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus

Because of the sacrifice of Christ, God sees only the righteousness of Christ when He looks at us. Our sin was nailed to the cross with Jesus, and we will never be punished for it.

The sin that remains in our lives, however, does sometimes require Gods discipline. If we continue to act in sinful ways and we do not repent and turn from that sin, God brings His discipline to bear on us.

Just as we discipline our own children for their welfare, so does God lovingly correct us for our benefit.

Hebrews 12:7-13 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?

Heb 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Heb 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?

Heb 12:10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.

Heb 12:11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Discipline, then, is how God lovingly turns us from rebellion to obedience. Through discipline our eyes are opened more clearly to God's perspective on our lives.

Psalm 32, I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity; I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD," and you forgave the iniquity of my sin.

Sin is a constant in our lives while we are on this earth (see Romans 3:10 )

We not only have to deal with God's discipline for our disobedience, but we also have to deal with the natural consequences resulting from sin. If a believer steals something, God will forgive him and cleanse him from the sin of theft, restoring fellowship between Himself and the repentant thief.

However, the worldly consequences of theft can be severe, resulting in fines or even jail time. These are natural consequences of sin and must be endured.

So I conclude we are punished by our sins and not for them.....

I don't feel there is really anything more I could add except, knowing that my rebellion from my Father in heaven had more consequences than I could ever imagine. It took a while for me to realize that, yes, my Father's discipline is to help me to get back in fellowship with Him, which is what He desires. As a child, I'm grateful that He does not turn His face away from me while in my rebellion. Or, that He becomes a taskmaster in our relationship. His Spirit let me know without any doubt that what I was doing was not pleasing Him. In my mind, I really believe that once I became part of the family of God...He will not kick me out, but as I said above...with love, His Spirit will draw me back. The conviction of my sin, the repentence of this sin in my life, the trust I put in God, and my obedience to His Word, is what is important. The consequences of my sin(which are painful), I take as a child knowing that God, my Father, loves me. Each day is a new one to please God...I would hope that my behaviour towards God and my neighbor are pleasing in His eyes. These three verses from Lamentations are ones that God has certainly reminded me of frequently. Along with the verses from Proverbs 3 and Hebrews 12, yes, I very much agree with your post.

22 Because of the LORDs great love we are not consumed,

for his compassions never fail.

23 They are new every morning;

great is your faithfulness.

24 I say to myself, The LORD is my portion;

therefore I will wait for him. - Lamentations 3:22-24

11 My son, do not despise the LORDs discipline,

and do not resent his rebuke,

12 because the LORD disciplines those he loves,

as a father the son he delights in. - Proverbs 3:11 & 12

Thank you Fez for a thoughtful thread. I hope you don't mind if I got a bit personal with my reply.

God bless,

Randal

[nebula]

What is the difference between discipline and punishment?

[Guest Butero]

I see where you are coming from Fez, and where the dissagreement comes in. I believe that when you accept Jesus, all your past sins are under the blood, as well as all unintentional current and future sins, but I don't believe all future sins you commit wilfully are under the blood. You have to repent of each of them to receive forgiveness for them. As such, if a person were to die while committing adultery, a robbery, an act of murder, etc., they would wind up in hell, even if they were a professing Christian.

[josephine tomczuk]

fez, just out of interest, what do you make of this:

Romans 6

¹What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

²God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

³Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

⁴Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

⁵For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

⁶Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

⁷For he that is dead is freed from sin.

⁸Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

⁹Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

¹⁰For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

¹¹Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

¹²Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

¹³Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

¹⁴For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

¹⁵What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

¹⁶Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

¹⁷But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

¹⁸Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

¹⁹I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

²⁰For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

²¹What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

²²But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

²³For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[Fez]

fez, just out of interest, what do you make of this:

Paul says we live under grace and he who is dead does not walk in sin.

But.....

We all sin, all the time, it's just who we are.

If we were not forgiven these sins we would all be heading for hell.

So....

It is all about repentance of the particular sin, and striving not to do it again and again, and having a truly repenting heart.

Because it is the heart that Jesus looks at, not the sin.

And what is the difference between disciple and punishment? Where to start Nebula, where to start?

For me punishment is not meted out to correct, it is meted out because correction was not heeded.

Disciple has another means to it's end. It is to teach, and sometimes teach harshly, but it differs from punishment.

[benjamin-benjamin]

Fez, it may be semantics....

This, after reading the 1st post i would say he was making the point that we are punished for sins....

[Guest]

It is my understanding that on the cross Jesus Christ took the punishment that I so deserve. Did He not say, "It is finished."?