Lucifer?

[Matthitjah]

well I really just don't know about all this. Where does it say his pre fall name was lucifer...sorry maybe I'm just stupid, so I guess I need a bunch of thumbs up thrown

in my face and big laughing faces to point out how easiliy understood you are.

See if Lucifer were his pre fall name, then why in Luke 10:18 does our Lord refer to him as satan?? I'm quite sure the folks He was talking to would have understood.

Well as far as the name change example you gave...well...the bible is pretty clear on who's name is being changed, it actually points out that the name is being changed.....and then you say " why not lucifer to satan "...well I have not yet seen the scripture that pointedly states the change as with the others.

I've often wondered if "Satan" was meant to be a name rather than a title.

In Hebrew, he is called ha-Satan, which means "the Deceiver."

Of course, in Jewish thinking their concept of ha-Satan is different than ours. It is interesting to study.

Here is an explanation

Interesting..so in Hebrew he is the Deceiver, in Judaism he is the accuser, and in Christianity the enemy of God....

I'm beginning to understand why people walk away.

You feeling allright brother?

[David333]

sdktlk, brother or sister (according to your profile, it's unknown),

I see that you have been with us here at Worthy less than a month now, and while I do admire you for asking these highly debatable, non salvation issue questions (after having read through all your posts and only replying to a few), I must admit that I am very curious as to your primary motivation for asking such questions. What is your purpose? Is it to acutally, really "learn" and grow in your relationship with the Lord? Is it really, as you have stated in many places, "to get us to think about" the elementary, and sometimes traditional teachings of the Church and Christianity since the founding and birth of the Church on the Day of Pentecost? To really examine what we as Christians have been taught over the years, and handed down as Doctrine and Dogma from the early Church Fathers, to be sure, beyond the shadow of a doubt that what we have been taught and are believing really is the Truth? Or are you here to sow seeds of discord within the Body of Christ, and to nurture those seeds of discord into healthy, mature, thriving weeds of doubt into the lives of the Babes in Christ and those seeking the knowledge of the Truth, not to mention those seeking salvation, who are yet unsaved?

I do pray that it is the former and not the latter. And the reason that I say what I have thus far said, is the simple fact that either discord is your primary motivation, or your Theology is truly off base, and happenstance at best. I say this as humbly as I can, and take no glory for myself, but give all credit and glory to God, but I was called (by God) into the Minstry 8 years ago, and have since become Licensed and Ordained as a Non-Denominational Minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I have given that little bit of insight into my background, to basically validate and show that I have spent years in the study and teaching of God's Word, during which time I have found that the Theological position that your questions come from, have been previously raised as legitimate questions, and have also become the founding doctrine of many occultic organizations. Not saying that you are occultic by any means, just showing where from, and how I have come to the conclusions that I have thus far regarding your line and character of questions that you have posted in this and other threads and forums.

If you wish to discuss my positioning any further, you will find my email address on my profile. This way neither of us will stand the chance of being banned or shut down from enjoying the Awesome Ministry of Worthy Christian Forums.

With all Love in Christ,

David

[AnotherTraveler]

"It was Adam who was, "...the anointed cherub that covered..," and when he willing yielded to Satan he gave all his authority and position to him."

I couldn't disagree more on this statement.

As to Lucifer/Satan/Demons/Devils/and all the rest, Jesus Christ triumphed over everything of the enemy, and because He did, we are more than conquerers. Thank You Lord Jesus!!

[Rick-Parker]

First of all, the Bible is given us to know God, not to know Satan, demons, and the whole lot. So I do not know why you are making this such a major issue? Will unlocking this mystery bring you any closer to Jesus?

But as for what you said -

"The import here is that this was the beginning of the end for Satan to have access to the heavenly realm any longer.

When, at Calvary, Satan had the Lord Jesus murdered without cause the Lord then had the right to take back from Satan that which Adam had willing given him in the Garden. Which was the ability to come into God's presence and to rule the world."

I fail to recall any of this being mentioned in Scripture. On what basis do you make your claim?

Adam was a cherub?

Although I agree with your claim that Adam gave the dominion of the Earth the Lord gave to him over to Satan, to claim Adam as being more than a man is an extreme stretch.

The OP is a teaching of false doctrine, another Gospel. The Word tells us in 2 Timothy 4:2-4 "Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all long suffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." This is what is being talked about in this thread. Is the OP the first time that someone has thought on these questions? I think not. That is why it is not generally accepted as Truth within the Body of Christ. Yet it is being taught of as if it is authoritative. It is not. It is false doctrine and has no place in or to be taken seriously here.

[sdktlk]

Lucifer? The question remains. I hear the Lord Jesus say, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him." (Jn 8:44) When the Lord Jesus says "from the beginning" the only place that this can take me is to "..In the beginning God said..." (Gen 1:1) any place else would simply be a guess. Lucifer?

[goldust59]

Lucifer? The question remains. I hear the Lord Jesus say, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him." (Jn 8:44) When the Lord Jesus says "from the beginning" the only place that this can take me is to "..In the beginning God said..." (Gen 1:1) any place else would simply be a guess. Lucifer?

I agree wholeheartedly that Adam was the subject of Isaiah 14. He had been given dominion over earth & lost it. He ate of the fruit that was to make him "like God".

[David333]

Lucifer? The question remains. I hear the Lord Jesus say, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him." (Jn 8:44) When the Lord Jesus says "from the beginning" the only place that this can take me is to "..In the beginning God said..." (Gen 1:1) any place else would simply be a guess. Lucifer?

[Matthitjah]

Lucifer? The question remains. I hear the Lord Jesus say, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him." (Jn 8:44) When the Lord Jesus says "from the beginning" the only place that this can take me is to "..In the beginning God said..." (Gen 1:1) any place else would simply be a guess. Lucifer?

So you subscribe to the teachings of Harold Camping then?

[sdktlk]

Lucifer? The question remains. I hear the Lord Jesus say, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him." (Jn 8:44) When the Lord Jesus says "from the beginning" the only place that this can take me is to "..In the beginning God said..." (Gen 1:1) any place else would simply be a guess. Lucifer?

So you subscribe to the teachings of Harold Camping then?

Brother, I don't know of Harold Camping, all we can do is look at the Word of God. That IS, "Looking unto Jesus (The Word made flesh) the author and finisher of our faith..." (Heb 12:2) The Living and the Written Word combined said FROM the beginning, what else is needed for understanding?

[Matthitjah]

Lucifer? The question remains. I hear the Lord Jesus say, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him." (Jn 8:44) When the Lord Jesus says "from the beginning" the only place that this can take me is to "..In the beginning God said..." (Gen 1:1) any place else would simply be a guess. Lucifer?

So you subscribe to the teachings of Harold Camping then?

Brother, I don't know of Harold Camping, all we can do is look at the Word of God. That IS, "Looking unto Jesus (The Word made flesh) the author and finisher of our faith..." (Heb 12:2) The Living and the Written Word combined said FROM the beginning, what else is needed for understanding?

That's good that your not a Camping Disciple.

Let's discuss wat jesus meant when He said, "From the Beginning."

Did He mean from the Beginning of eternity, because God has no beginning and no end, or did He mean from the beginning of the world? If that's the case, what are the implications of doctrine you propose?