Who is Jesus?

[808state]

I suppose I believe that this life is pretty much it. I wouldn't state that as a fact though. And I can't say I willingly chose that belief.

I can't begin to tell you of the sorrows that fill my heart to hear of your hopeless estate!!! The horrid things you witness and the belief that is as good as it gets.... do you have an idea or ideal of betterment? If your answer is yes may I ask to what end? Do you seek pleasure for yourself as motivation to obtain anything? I am sorry! I am just curios about you! I was raised in the knowledge of Christ and I have always had hope in Him... I became vile when I thought I could do somethings in my own strength with the exclusion of Him and give Him trinkets of my life for Him to be Lord over... that I believe to the major portion of religion today! As I participated in sins they grew exceedingly strong and demanding of me... I can tell you that I know of at least 7 miracles were performed to continue life in me- some were pretty evident even to those around me especially my dad on earth... I believe His Godly prayers is what motivated the Lord to keep me alive for I cannot imagine any other reason! I struggled with the reality knowing what Jesus had to go though because of my sins yet enjoying them after this knowledge I thought this applied-

I think my general philosophy on life is simply to experience as much of it as I can, and to appreciate it before it's gone. I think learning to take the good with the bad is a big part of that philosophy, and learning to accept that it's all apart of life. Do I seek pleasure for myself as motivation to obtain things? I'm not sure what you mean.

Knowing what we have now before us in creation does nothing but indicate a lessoning in gene pool, energy, entropy, morality, family values, etc. I would naturally assume that this lessoning would also be with our functioning physiology

That would make sense.

[808state]

Young Lady, I can see you have no desire to learn about Jesus. I've been curious why non believers come to a Christian forum to argue against what we believe? Most the non believers are not genuine when they say they desire to learn about God. You keep saying there is no evidence and really don't care to look on your own. Your hardened heart is keeping you from God. Weather you know it or not, the people here truly care about you and your eternal destiny. Here's info on the Gospels but you'll probably deny it's info because it's a Religious website.

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4225535/k.1274/The_Historical_Reliability_of_the_Gospels.htm

Young man , I've been clear about my intention here from the start. Forums like this are typically how I learn about other religions. I'm open to learning about Jesus, but I can't promise the results are going to be what you want them to be. I'm sorry about that. If I see a flaw in an argument or idea, I can't simply ignore it. If I believe in something, it has to be genuine. It has to be because I can't see any other real possibility.

What I've been saying is that there is no evidence of certain supernatural events outside of the Bible. I asked for some at the beginning of the thread, and the link that was given to me essentially stated that there was very limited writings about Jesus and events surrounding him outside of the Bible. I even looked further into it, and the result that I came to was that there was no evidence for the supernatural aspects of Jesus outside of the Bible.

I understand that I probably frustrate you, or at least it seems that way with your use of "young lady", but I'm still learning. I learn in my own way. My intentions are genuine, I come in peace. I'm not here to make anyone angry or frustrated.

As far as your link goes, thank you for that. I'll look it over with an open mind. It's not an aspect of the Bible I've actually fully looked into yet as far as consistency and dating goes.

[Guest]

He Is Worthy

He poureth contempt upon princes, and causeth them to wander in the wilderness, where there is no way.

Yet setteth he the poor on high from affliction, and maketh him families like a flock.

The righteous shall see it, and rejoice: and all iniquity shall stop her mouth.

Whoso is wise, and will observe these things, even they

shall understand the lovingkindness

of the LORD. Psalms 107:40-43

____________

I have to ask the obvious, Cato. Do you really think you're so important that the Creator owes you explanations for His work? That is some major arrogance there. You are but one of His creations and, while important to Him, you're no different than any of the other 6 billion plus souls on earth.

It is difficult to conceive of any way that I might be owed anything by an entity that I do not think exists. I'm also not a 'creation'.

May I ask, what do you consider yourself?

A member of the species homo sapiens sapiens; a human being.

Ah!

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22　

Not All Homo Sapiens Are Wise You See

Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. Matthew 2:1-2

And Some Still Use The Science Of The Believing Men ( Carolus Linnaeus ) Of Old

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

To Pontificate And To Snipe At The Truth

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Romans 1:21-22

And Then Proudly Say

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish. Psalms 1

What A Smart Boy

Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect. The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Psalms 33:8-11

Am I

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7

Yet

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

[OneLight]

Young Lady, I can see you have no desire to learn about Jesus. I've been curious why non believers come to a Christian forum to argue against what we believe? Most the non believers are not genuine when they say they desire to learn about God. You keep saying there is no evidence and really don't care to look on your own. Your hardened heart is keeping you from God. Weather you know it or not, the people here truly care about you and your eternal destiny. Here's info on the Gospels but you'll probably deny it's info because it's a Religious website.

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4225535/k.1274/The_Historical_Reliability_of_the_Gospels.htm

Young man

Your gender says Female.

[808state]

Young Lady, I can see you have no desire to learn about Jesus. I've been curious why non believers come to a Christian forum to argue against what we believe? Most the non believers are not genuine when they say they desire to learn about God. You keep saying there is no evidence and really don't care to look on your own. Your hardened heart is keeping you from God. Weather you know it or not, the people here truly care about you and your eternal destiny. Here's info on the Gospels but you'll probably deny it's info because it's a Religious website.

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4225535/k.1274/The_Historical_Reliability_of_the_Gospels.htm

Young man

Your gender says Female.

I was addressing you. Notice the coma after it instead of a period. Maybe I shouldn't have italicized it.

[OneLight]

Young Lady, I can see you have no desire to learn about Jesus. I've been curious why non believers come to a Christian forum to argue against what we believe? Most the non believers are not genuine when they say they desire to learn about God. You keep saying there is no evidence and really don't care to look on your own. Your hardened heart is keeping you from God. Weather you know it or not, the people here truly care about you and your eternal destiny. Here's info on the Gospels but you'll probably deny it's info because it's a Religious website.

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4225535/k.1274/The_Historical_Reliability_of_the_Gospels.htm

Young man

Your gender says Female.

I was addressing you. Notice the coma after it instead of a period. Maybe I shouldn't have italicized it.

It appears that you were addressing Believer112, not me. Sorry for misunderstanding your post, but usually that is how people correct a gender mistake.

[Botz]

Hi 808,

I think for all of us Believers there are things in Scripture that have us raising more than an eyebrow sometimes...if we are honest too, but the difference is that because we trust G-d we see that despite some of the things that are hard to understand from our view point, He is not an ogre and is not an elaborate con-artist who wants to impose His will on our lives just to mess with us, but demonstrates the extent of His love for us by living amongst us, dying at our hands, and showing us that death is not the end, and that the power of sin and death has been broken.

When we finally give up trying to rationalise G-d, and come to a place where we reach out and trust Him, everything else fits into place...and He affirms the relationship through the gift of the Holy Spirit. Doesn't mean we won't still question things or try and reason things out...but it means our way of thinking undergoes a paradigm shift because we have become new creations.

Sometimes a person comes to faith just from hearing the Gospel that he can have his sins forgiven and eternal life if he simply takes Jesus at His word. For others they might take years weighing things up, arguing, debating, discussing and looking at how their Christian friends live their lives etc etc and finally come to faith themselves....both are legitimate, neither is better than the other...the result is the same....but there is never a guarantee that when a person hears the Gospel and rejects it, they won't get hardened by sin...today is always the opportunity for salvation, because who knows what will occur tomorrow.

You can choose to follow God, choose to trust that that his logic is limitless and ours is limited, and go with it. Which seems to be what you're doing. My personal issue with this is that the Biblical God gives me about as much feeling as another God, y'know? I don't see why I should choose Christianity over any other theistic religion. Because, you're right, I could choose Christianity (and have in the past, mind you), and just believe any doubts I have are simply due to my ignorance, but I could do that with any religion.

I mean, the Bible is meant for humans to read. God wanted humans to understand what he was saying so why start using logic that's above our reasoning? Why not translate it in a way that we could understand?

I think what I am trying to get across is that for each individual seeking in their own way and from their own position to find G-d or reach out to the posssibility of His existence, there comes a time when all the arguments stop, all the many questions that buzz around our minds seem unimportant, our reliance on being our own person and submitting to the limitations of our own intellect...no longer appeal....and we become those that truly seek, and are desperate for the truth and are aware of our own sinfulness and short-comings...More often than not, that is the time Jesus reveals Himself to a person....it does not have its roots in intelligence, but rather personal revelation through the Holy Spirit, disclosing G-d to you as an individual.

The Bible says that James 4:6...

[enoob57]

I suppose I believe that this life is pretty much it. I wouldn't state that as a fact though. And I can't say I willingly chose that belief.

I can't begin to tell you of the sorrows that fill my heart to hear of your hopeless estate!!! The horrid things you witness and the belief that is as good as it gets.... do you have an idea or ideal of betterment? If your answer is yes may I ask to what end? Do you seek pleasure for yourself as motivation to obtain anything? I am sorry! I am just curios about you! I was raised in the knowledge of Christ and I have always had hope in Him... I became vile when I thought I could do somethings in my own strength with the exclusion of Him and give Him trinkets of my life for Him to be Lord over... that I believe to the major portion of religion today! As I participated in sins they grew exceedingly strong and demanding of me... I can tell you that I know of at least 7 miracles were performed to continue life in me- some were pretty evident even to those around me especially my dad on earth... I believe His Godly prayers is what motivated the Lord to keep me alive for I cannot imagine any other reason! I struggled with the reality knowing what Jesus had to go though because of my sins yet enjoying them after this knowledge I thought this applied-

I think my general philosophy on life is simply to experience as much of it as I can, and to appreciate it before it's gone. I think learning to take the good with the bad is a big part of that philosophy, and learning to accept that it's all apart of life. Do I seek pleasure for myself as motivation to obtain things? I'm not sure what you mean.

Loved one I am not talking about philosophy; I am talking about your heart! Talk to me about that which you are attached to that you would not want to live without, a dad, a mom, a brother, a sister, a friend, a dog, a worm, a rock.... notice that in this list that which was closest to you to that which is furthest away and has no life? Do these in this list arrive at their importance for what they do for you, or is it what they are? Have you experienced loss in that which you have considered close and needful in your life yet? Have you experienced something so wonderful that you did not wish to loose that experience and in loosing it did it cause you pain? Does being all alone scare you? When you enter a your place of stay do you turn on a radio, tv, anything that makes noise? Do you ever sit down all alone and examine yourself to see what is inside? I know these things are intimate and personal because they require entering the place of being, a place, that defines who you really are and what you are! I also know that you probably never go there because you are afraid of what you will find? This is the place, Loved one, that we, who have called out from there, have called out to Christ Jesus to save us for we have considered that what we have witnessed in life is to precious to loose! Even the purpose of a rock is to wonderful to loose... Where we are, if God has granted you this walk with me, is called the heart of life; it is of God's making and it is a wonder that only them that able to sit down in their heart, in quietness to examine, are able to see! I have just prayed that you are here in yourself unguarded with me and I have faith for Christ is also here as well! In this place we have come together is a place where all things speak loudly of God in the quiet of the room. They speak things like value, treasure, worth, and each and every voice speaks of Jesus Christ that has made them to be... they speak of color, texture, smells, beauty, intimacy of person the warmth of the sun and the cold of a mid winter night, the smile of a loved face, the tears of a hurting child... so far and yet so near in this spectrum of experience One Voice stands out when Spoken all things cease in their witness and only His is heard-

John 3:16-21

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

NKJV

You see loved one, in the beginning all things existed for the purpose of others and only there can one appreciate outside of itself the true value in all things, the flower, her beauty and fragrance, Adam stored in His heart till the cool of the evening when His Creator came to visit Him and He would pour forth in worship of that beauty and fragrance with a heart that was able to recieve the true purpose of the flower was to lead Him to the wonder of his Lord before Him... It was here the purpose of God in His creation is seen and it is here He is bringing His creation back to!!!! As these daily journeys of discovery was wonderful and filled with awe of reverence the talks with The Lord in the cool of the day in the descriptive aspects of thing with no names- it was decided by The Lord for Adam to name The Lord's wonders... when it came to the animated beings, animals, each passed by male and female.... as Adam finished in the naming, He was aware of His state as being only and no other... The Father, Son and Holy Spirit in Their councils One with Another decided it was not good for Adam to be alone; for that which They had made in Their Image and put Their very Breath into was unlike Them in that They have in eternity been Together as One.... so from the sleep They caused Him to do They took from Him a rib and fashioned the woman and when Adam awoke to look at her the very first time it surpassed all else God had made and the worship Adam brought back to The Lord, for Eve is what He had called Her, is given witness to us By Christ -The Cross- The Church

Eph 5:22-33

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

NKJV

They were one in exploration of the beauty and wonder of God infinite resource till one day they passed by the only prohibition in the entire garden of God and there the highest created being which had fallen spoke through a serpent the first lie in God's garden and the woman being deceived believed the lie and acted upon it and did eat of that which she was told not to.... Adam was faced with a choice to be separated from that which He loved more than all else in the garden for there was nothing else like Her or willful disobedience to the One who had given him all things... even the woman! He did eat! This you will not understand but I will try to make it simple... We were present that day present in the seed of the man and His decision was also our decision for each of us after birth comes a time when we know we should not do something but in the doing we would gain what we want ... we do... and that is the agreeing I speak of that day! This is sin and this is what has caused all to be dead and turned inward! That is why you see only death and life isn't in your understanding... but I have spoken the truth to you we beg life for you in God and He has given all that He can His Son... Just call out to Him loved one from where you are with me now and say Lord Jesus will you save me... come into my life that I might live... Praying Love Steven

Knowing what we have now before us in creation does nothing but indicate a lessoning in gene pool, energy, entropy, morality, family values, etc. I would naturally assume that this lessoning would also be with our functioning physiology

That would make sense.

I am with my family pouring out myself to The Father that He draw you to Himself for we love you and wish life with us forever with Him............Christ name above all name's.......

[MorningGlory]

I am with my family pouring out myself to The Father that He draw you to Himself for we love you and wish life with us forever with Him............Christ name above all name's.......

[enoob57]

repeated post ? I have no Idea why.... Love Steven