Church Unity

[undone]

One of the last things Jesus prayed before His crucifixion was for the unity of His church. As I've engaged in discussions with people online over the years, it's clear that in many respects, Christians lack agreement on a variety of issues.

I remember a discussion with a non-believing member named Secondeve years ago that sticks with me today. In speaking with her about her position on Christianity, she stated that it was difficult to know what to believe in that it was obvious that Christians couldn't agree on many key issues themselves. I couldn't argue that point.

This leads to the question if we are to strive for the unity for which Christ prayed, how is that defined? What does the target look like? What is it that Jesus had in mind?

If it's the Apostles Creed then how do we address objections such as moral absolutes which are not mentioned in the Creed (this was one of Secondeve's objections)?

[Nyoka]

Denominations have been round as long as the church has. Paul had to rebuke some in the church for it: 1Co 1:11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brothers, by those of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 1Co 1:12 But I say this, that every one of you says, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ. 1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you, or were you baptized in the name of Paul? So we see that believers have had this problem with unity from the beginning of the church.

I tend to go with the words of Christ: Joh 13:34 I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another. Joh 13:35 By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love toward one another. He doesn't say here to only love each other if we agree with each other but to love each other - with no conditions added. If someone confesses Jesus as their Lord and savior then and they show some fruit of this in their lives then I would call them my brother/sister in Christ. We may disagree over things but we can meet on what we agree on. For example I might believe in a pre trib rapture and you might believe in a post trib rapture. That sort of disagreement should not stop our fellowship as we both believe that we are going to be with our Lord even though we disagree on the details of it. Now that does not mean we can't stand against true heresy. As an extreme example of this say someone comes to us and says that Jesus is going to come down to earth in a spaceship and take us all to the planet xanadu then we must stand against such false teaching. But over disagreements in details of things such as the post trib/pre trib debate then we should be able to debate these things while still holding love for each other. This also doesn't mean that we tolerate someone who claims to be a believer but ignores Jesus and what He says and lives their life in a sin filled way without even the remotest trace of wanting to change and is quite happy that way. Some one like this needs to be rebuked by the church: Mat 18:15 But if your brother shall trespass against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear you, take one or two more with you, so that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he neglects to hear the church, let him be to you as a heathen and a tax-collector

It is late here so I hope I didn't ramble to much lol.

[mjrhealth]

You must understand, there is the Lords church, the spiritual one that He is building made up of living stones, and theer is mans church, the one that you see when you walk down the street. There will never be unity in " mans " church, it has too much of man in it.

In His Love

[nebula]

Goo response, Nyoka!

And that is an interesting observation you made - there have always been divisions, just a different type.

But this goes back to what a few of us have been saying - Hebrew thought, of which our Scriptures come - is more interested in correct doing than correct thinking.

Now I'm not talking about the believing in Jesus stuff, but all those nit-picky things that we get in a titsy with each other over. Example: while some will argue "can lose your salvation" vs. eternal security, the Bible says, "If you see a brother in sin..." pray for him and if you can try to win him back over from that sin. Don't let your "thinking" get in the way of your "doing."

If the world saw us more "doing" the love of Jesus, they would see less denominational divisions. That is they would see Christianity as ice cream and the denominations and doctrinal peculiarities as the flavors.

[UncleAbee]

You must understand, there is the Lords church, the spiritual one that He is building made up of living stones, and theer is mans church, the one that you see when you walk down the street. There will never be unity in " mans " church, it has too much of man in it.

In His Love

Great answer. The problem with unity is that man puts too much of himself in the picture.

[Seriousseeker]

UNITY OF THE FAITH

This subject of unity in the church is about maintaining church truth, not about sects and systems of men. We should not be re-interpreting truth, for God already gave us the pattern. Some Christians say unity is not possible, but I disagree and find it has been going on for at least 180 years by those who are "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" (2 Tim. 2:15). Esteemed Bible scholars down through history have given us enough understanding of holy Scripture to be able to see what truth for the church is. Believers do not need to allow each Christian to invent things, as often is happening in Christendom, which results in new sects formed every year. Of course, I know that many will oppose this in order to defend their own sects, but I am talking about the need to bow to the Word of God for unity in the world.

We should value the Gospels as the truth and plan of redemption, and the Epistles as the messages of the Apostles for church truth. This then should be maintained by the collective mind of all the saints in a universal church fellowship. This has been working for the fellowship I am associated with since the early 1800's. Each assembly applies the same understanding of all the assemblies with us in the world ---thus a unity expressing the "one body" as God intended worldwide.

Some critics would say we thus have a hierarchy like all denoms., but that does not happen, for there is no recognized hierarchy, but highly esteemed Bible teachers everywhere in the world who can help local assemblies find the true path God intended, showing forth "unity of the faith" universal, in "one accord" (Phil.2:2). It works very well, and we thus continue in each locality to express what God intended in the beginning, as shown in Acts 2 and the Epistles. One can see this in practice at the web site: biblecounsel.homestead.com

- Seriousseeker

[charliegirl]

One of the last things Jesus prayed before His crucifixion was for the unity of His church. As I've engaged in discussions with people online over the years, it's clear that in many respects, Christians lack agreement on a variety of issues.

I remember a discussion with a non-believing member named Secondeve years ago that sticks with me today. In speaking with her about her position on Christianity, she stated that it was difficult to know what to believe in that it was obvious that Christians couldn't agree on many key issues themselves. I couldn't argue that point.

This leads to the question if we are to strive for the unity for which Christ prayed, how is that defined? What does the target look like? What is it that Jesus had in mind?

If it's the Apostles Creed then how do we address objections such as moral absolutes which are not mentioned in the Creed (this was one of Secondeve's objections)?

WHY IS IT WE WAIT SOMETIMES FOR SOMETHING BAD TO HAPPEN BEFORE WE GIVE OURSELVES BACK TO JESUS

[OneLight]

One of the last things Jesus prayed before His crucifixion was for the unity of His church. As I've engaged in discussions with people online over the years, it's clear that in many respects, Christians lack agreement on a variety of issues.

I remember a discussion with a non-believing member named Secondeve years ago that sticks with me today. In speaking with her about her position on Christianity, she stated that it was difficult to know what to believe in that it was obvious that Christians couldn't agree on many key issues themselves. I couldn't argue that point.

This leads to the question if we are to strive for the unity for which Christ prayed, how is that defined? What does the target look like? What is it that Jesus had in mind?

If it's the Apostles Creed then how do we address objections such as moral absolutes which are not mentioned in the Creed (this was one of Secondeve's objections)?

WHY IS IT WE WAIT SOMETIMES FOR SOMETHING BAD TO HAPPEN BEFORE WE GIVE OURSELVES BACK TO JESUS

Because we are deaf and hard hearten. We teach ourselves how to turn Him off, and by doing so, we broke communication with Him. It is not until we are convinced we are wrong, and the pride of life is all so strong, that we turn back to Him.

[enoob57]

One of the last things Jesus prayed before His crucifixion was for the unity of His church. As I've engaged in discussions with people online over the years, it's clear that in many respects, Christians lack agreement on a variety of issues.

I remember a discussion with a non-believing member named Secondeve years ago that sticks with me today. In speaking with her about her position on Christianity, she stated that it was difficult to know what to believe in that it was obvious that Christians couldn't agree on many key issues themselves. I couldn't argue that point.

This leads to the question if we are to strive for the unity for which Christ prayed, how is that defined? What does the target look like? What is it that Jesus had in mind?

If it's the Apostles Creed then how do we address objections such as moral absolutes which are not mentioned in the Creed (this was one of Secondeve's objections)?

We have an entire world that is based on anti-christ system, with the highest created being trying to influence us toward His way and system... In reality we must recognize all things even that of our own being as suspect to wrongness that would lead us into wrong directions... This in fact reduces us to smallness as a child and then we are made ready to fully lay upon His truths, trust in His Words and step upon the waters of life with full weight upon His holding us up... Love Steven

[turtletwo]

One of the last things Jesus prayed before His crucifixion was for the unity of His church. As I've engaged in discussions with people online over the years, it's clear that in many respects, Christians lack agreement on a variety of issues.

I remember a discussion with a non-believing member named Secondeve years ago that sticks with me today. In speaking with her about her position on Christianity, she stated that it was difficult to know what to believe in that it was obvious that Christians couldn't agree on many key issues themselves. I couldn't argue that point.

This leads to the question if we are to strive for the unity for which Christ prayed, how is that defined? What does the target look like? What is it that Jesus had in mind?

If it's the Apostles Creed then how do we address objections such as moral absolutes which are not mentioned in the Creed (this was one of Secondeve's objections)?

WHY IS IT WE WAIT SOMETIMES FOR SOMETHING BAD TO HAPPEN BEFORE WE GIVE OURSELVES BACK TO JESUS

Because we are deaf and hard hearten. We teach ourselves how to turn Him off, and by doing so, we broke communication with Him. It is not until we are convinced we are wrong, and the pride of life is all so strong, that we turn back to Him.

to this answer. I'd like to add that sometimes our simply becoming lax is enough to cause us to drift from the Lord. We can lose our zeal we had at the start, without even realizing it... so God will send a wakeup call of sorts, in order to draw us unto Himself. To turn our focus upwards and return us to our "first Love" in Jesus.

charliegirl. That was an excellent question you had about why do we wait until bad things happen... In my case, I was unaware that I was. For some, it can take some really intense things to get our attention. With me, it took an incurable medical condition that reduced me to a fraction of my former self. That's what finally opened my eyes to how I was neglecting the Lord. I eventually discovered I was giving Him the crumbs and not my best.

I wasn't sinning in ways that were obvious to others (or even me.) I was doing my daily routine of living (responsibilities.) But I was using the excuse that my being busy entitled me to "just kick back" and enjoy myself after a day of hecticness. (That was my reasoning to 'relax' through television.) The shows were cleancut. But I spent too much time on them. Then I'd get sleepy and I'd put the Lord off till the next day, not reading scripture and seeking Him... I wasn't attempting to tell others about Him and share the gospel like I should... (Thus, being selfish by not putting Him first & loving Him the way He deserved.)

As to church unity, nebula put it well. The gospel is what matters most. So we must examine any local church's teachings to be sure they are biblically sound in the most crucial doctrines relating to that. But the heart of church unity is that we ought to love one another. Even if our personalities clash, we're still expected to humble ourselves and seek to get along.

"If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." Romans 12:18 The world is watching us. Jesus is our perfect role model. Look at how He, being God washed His disciples's feet. And taught them to go and do the same.

1 John 4:7-8. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. The world will be more drawn to Christ by seeing His Kindness flow through us than anything we say. Actions speak louder than words. A good question to ask ourselves: Are we living so loudly (in the wrong sense) that they can not hear what we are saying? (in our witnessing)...Food for thought. Love you all. (Sorry this was long. But I hope it helped someone out there. For all I want is to be an assett to Worthy.)