Free Grace Theology Vs. Lordship Salvation

[nebula]

I believe in Free Grace Theology because it is what the Holy Spirit has shown to me to be true.

Byron, I've been through and seen enough debates where people use "the Holy Spirit has shown me" as their attempt to win their argument not to be swayed by this ploy. When everyone comes in with different perspectives, all claiming "the Holy Spirit has shown me," this means either the Holy Spirit is confused or divided, or people are confusing the Holy Spirit with something else.

Nice try.

(And considering that you have defended your belief by claiming Jesus directly deceived a young man, I really have to question your discernment.)

Lordship Salvation places both justification and sanctification under "salvation", and says that one cannot be saved without both. This borders on a works-based salvation.

How is it sanctification to surrender your life to Jesus' authority?

Your position claims salvation is about nothing more than getting into Heaven. That is a very cheap view of grace.

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"Cheap grace means grace sold on the market like a cheapjack's wares. The sacraments, the forgiveness of sin, and the consolations of religion are thrown away at cut-rate prices. Grace is represented as the Church's inexhaustible treasury, from which she showers blessings with generous hands, without asking questions or fixing limits. Grace without price; grace without cost! And the essence of grace, we suppose, is that the account has been paid in advance; and, because it has been paid, everything can be had for nothing. Since the cost was infinite, the possibilities of using and spending it are infinite. What would grace be, if it were not cheap?

. . . In such a Church the world finds a cheap covering for its sins; no contrition is required, still less any real desire to be delivered from sin. . .

Cheap grace means the justification of sin without the justification of the sinner. Grace alone does everything, they say, and so everything can remain as it was before. { p. 42}

Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, (it is) baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession, absolution without personal confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate." { p. 43-4}

~Dietrich Bonhoeffer, "The Cost of Discipleship"~

[nebula]

I think it is a false dichotomy.

Faith cannot help but produce a change in a human being; it is a supernatural act of the Holy Spirit, it is not intellectual assent thus it cannot help but produce good works. As a wise theologian said you can no more separate faith from works than you can separate smoke from fire.

I agree. That's why I refuse to vote in the poll.

However we as humans cannot make the determination of how someone else is being saved by God, we cannot look from the outside and say for certain well that person is not saved or that person is saved because they have not changed enough or they are showing many good works.

True. But the "free grace theology" as Byron presented deceives people into thinking they can come to the cross without partaking in Jesus' death and resurrection, and that is simply not Biblical.

[enoob57]

Now my question is, if somebody said they have faith and don't have good works, did they really have true Faith in the first place?

No

a better light for me is can you Have The Spirit of Christ and not have the desire of Christ?

[OneLight]

Now my question is, if somebody said they have faith and don't have good works, did they really have true Faith in the first place?

It all depends where they are in their walk in Christ. A new believer will not have good works yet so others will see them, but they do have faith in Christ. I do agree that if someone has been saved for a long time and has no works, then the seed may of been planted on the wayside or in thorns.

[nebula]

OK - I decided to vote "Other."

This thread is the first time I have ever heard of "Free Grace" and "Lordship" Theology as such.

But from what I gather, here is how I am understanding these theologies:

"Lordship theology," as Byron has presented, is advocating one needs to clean themselves up in order to take a bath.

This I oppose.

""Free Grace Theology," as Byron has presented, is advocating becoming cleaned up without taking a bath (or shower).

This I oppose as well.

[Guest shiloh357]

Now my question is, if somebody said they have faith and don't have good works, did they really have true Faith in the first place?

Genuine saving faith will produce corresponding actions. Ultimately, you live what you believe. Talk is cheap. Your life is a showcase of your faith or the lack thereof.

The Christian life is a transformed life. Your heart has been transformed to follow Christ and to obey His Word. Absent that, the authenticity of one's profession of faith is void. If one get's "saved" and yet still continues to enjoy and live in sin, there is a major problem there.

[Guest Butero]

Now my question is, if somebody said they have faith and don't have good works, did they really have true Faith in the first place?

Genuine saving faith will produce corresponding actions. Ultimately, you live what you believe. Talk is cheap. Your life is a showcase of your faith or the lack thereof.

The Christian life is a transformed life. Your heart has been transformed to follow Christ and to obey His Word. Absent that, the authenticity of one's profession of faith is void. If one get's "saved" and yet still continues to enjoy and live in sin, there is a major problem there.

I agree. And like Nebula, I had never heard of these two competing theologies. I voted for the Lordship Theology choice, but I would not have if I had understood it like Nebula did. I didn't take it that under Lordship theology, you clean yourself up before you take a bath. I took it that you were washed clean by the blood of Christ and then you walk in newness of life. If that is not the case, then I am in the "Other" camp.

[Guest Butero]

I believe in Free Grace Theology because it is what the Holy Spirit has shown to me to be true.

Byron, I've been through and seen enough debates where people use "the Holy Spirit has shown me" as their attempt to win their argument not to be swayed by this ploy. When everyone comes in with different perspectives, all claiming "the Holy Spirit has shown me," this means either the Holy Spirit is confused or divided, or people are confusing the Holy Spirit with something else.

Nice try.

I don't have any problem with someone saying the Holy Spirit showed them something. Whether we say it or not, we all believe our interpretation is right and that we are Spirit led. The problem is exactly what you stated Nebula. I would say that the Spirit has shown me the exact opposite that he showed ByronA. Is the Spirit divided? No. One of us is wrong. That is why we have to look at what someone says and judge it by the written Word. Nobody should ever accept that the Holy Spirit showed me something whether I say it or someone else does without looking into it and praying about it. Whether I have been in the office of a teacher, Pastor, or just going about giving an opinon on scripture, I never expect anyone to take what I said as the gospel truth. We only know in part. I believe you (BrianA) probably do believe the Holy Spirit has shown you those things, but we have to judge those things by scripture.

[oldzimm]

After reading all the post, I have cast my vote for "Other". It seems to me that both Grace Theology and Lordship Salvation are titles that were made up by man, just to cause a debate.

My "Other" is Jesus Christ and Jesus is who I'm holding on to. Jesus died for my sins and I will try to repay that debt (which is impossible) the best I can with good works.

I will admit, there are times when I feel like I'm not doing enough for God, that is something I must work on.

[Fraught]

How come no one has voted in the poll? I am really curious about the break down of percentages of everyone's opinion.

i would like to vote since i feel you are honestly interested. however . . . i dont' know what these things are. the 'free grace' one i got the gist of from your posts, but what is 'lordship salvation'????

i'll tell you briefly my stance: salvation depends on belief in the TRUTH; it depends on staying in the WAY; it depends on participating in the LIFE. Jesus' words, not mine. (i hope you tell me what lordship salvation is)