Eternal Security

[OneLight]

Ah Ok. So yes these people of those choices will be at the great white throne judgement. The saints will not be told "I do not know you" by Jesus. The saints will have their works judged to see what their rewards will be and some will have all their works they thought were good destroyed and they will not receive too many rewards and escape hell by the slimmest of margins.

The people that Jesus says he doesn't know will be cast out where there will be weeping and gnashing teeth.

Do you see the Bema Seat as The Great White Throne Judgment?

No and I don't want to step on my own feet trying to explain my view here so I will just provide a link to a study done by J. Hampton Keathley, III published here. http://bible.org/article/doctrine-rewards-judgment-seat-bema-christ

No need to trip over your own feet! I was only asking because of what you posted in reply to Ruck. I was confused by your answers.

BTW, I also enjoy bible.org.

[Guest]

What do you mean by escaping hell by the slimmest margins? Also, what were the works of lawlessness? Do you believe that those who works are found to be wood, hay, and stubble will be weeping?

I believe he is referring to 1 Cor. 3:12-15 "Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (NKJV)

What does this have to do with hell?

I just posted the scripture that I believe PeterH was referring to in his statement about works of stagnant and unproductive Christians being burnt up but the individual still remaining Redeemed. This is a topic about eternal security, remember?

[Joshua-777]

This explains my view of eternal security.

[Guest]

What do you mean by escaping hell by the slimmest margins? Also, what were the works of lawlessness? Do you believe that those who works are found to be wood, hay, and stubble will be weeping?

I believe he is referring to 1 Cor. 3:12-15 "Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (NKJV)

What does this have to do with hell?

I just posted the scripture that I believe PeterH was referring to in his statement about works of stagnant and unproductive Christians being burnt up but the individual still remaining Redeemed. This is a topic about eternal security, remember?

I do remember, but my question is still in line with it. The fact that you state that the fire is the fires of hell is troubling. Where do you get that?

I have never in this string referred to the fires of hell. Perhaps you are thinking of someone else. PeterH perhaps. The only reference to "fire" that I have made is of one's works being burnt up but the individual still entering Heaven "as through fire." That is purely scriptural and quoted word for word, in context. If you can imagine it, picture a person who has a hand full of papers caught in a house fire. The only way out is through the front door, which is surrounded by fire itself. In order to escape, the person runs and jumps through the door opening. He makes it out alive, scorched a little from the fire, but he made it out. But everything that he had grabbed while making his escape was alight and burnt up by the fire that the man had to jump through in order to escape. That is the picture that the verses I posted paint. It's like a parable. Do I need to explain it to you any more than that? Or can you figure it out on your own?

[JohnD]

For me, it is so simple. You HAVE TO interpret passages like 2 Thess 2 and Heb 6 in context with John 10:28-29, Jeremiah 32:40, and 1 John 2:19.

To do less is to do what all do who misinterpret the scriptures.

[enoob57]

For me, it is so simple. You HAVE TO interpret passages like 2 Thess 2 and Heb 6 in context with John 10:28-29, Jeremiah 32:40, and 1 John 2:19.

To do less is to do what all do who misinterpret the scriptures.

exactly and to use one or the other and not the whole is fooliness... Love Steven

[Guest]

For me, it is so simple. You HAVE TO interpret passages like 2 Thess 2 and Heb 6 in context with John 10:28-29, Jeremiah 32:40, and 1 John 2:19.

To do less is to do what all do who misinterpret the scriptures.

So, what IS your position on the matter?

Ya know what? I think that this is the first time that I have participated in a conversation on this topic that has actually been civil, no insults thrown around, no hurt feelings, no accusations! This is so great!

[Guest shiloh357]

It is a warning to beware of false prophets, but still it is speaking of a group of people who think they are on their way to heaven and are not because they did not do the will of the Father. It is not just the false prophets that do not enter heaven, but the people who listen to them also. If that were not true then Roman Catholics are absolved for worshiping Mary for they are lead to do so by false prophets of the Roman Church.

I don't see that verse as just applying to the false prophets as to who do not enter heaven. It is a warning to everyone to be careful who you listen to for your eternal security is at stake. We will not get any more of a break from that than Eve did when she tried to put the blame for her actions on the serpant.

The context says otherwise. It is the false prophets who are compared to the good and bad fruit. It is the false prophets who perform false signs and wonders in Christ's Name. The principle may hold true in terms of regular Christians, but the specific context is about false prophets who perform miracles. That fact alone shows that Jesus is not talking about average Christians, but about those who will fool people into following them.

Well, if you think you can practice iniquity and still go to heaven, then go for it dude...... but I'd be careful of teaching others that.

I think you know that such was not my point. But in the absence of a scriiptural, contextual response, you had to resort to an unfair characterization of my response.

Just because I can demonstrate that the context is about false prophets, it does not follow, and there is NO way to make the logical leap that I think a person can practice iniquity and go to heaven.

The point is that the context is about recognizing false prophets for who they are and judging them by their fruit. There are many people who stand in pulpits and pretend they are God's moutpieces and are decieving many and in some cases, are involved in the supernatural and getting rich and famous in the process. Many of them will be surprised at the reversal of fortune. They will be surprised that after all the work they did for the Lord (in their own eyes), they will be rejected at the throne.

[JohnD]

For me, it is so simple. You HAVE TO interpret passages like 2 Thess 2 and Heb 6 in context with John 10:28-29, Jeremiah 32:40, and 1 John 2:19.

To do less is to do what all do who misinterpret the scriptures.

So, what IS your position on the matter?

Ya know what? I think that this is the first time that I have participated in a conversation on this topic that has actually been civil, no insults thrown around, no hurt feelings, no accusations! This is so great!

Bible teaches once you are saved, you are eternally saved. Eternally secure.

Question is... are you ( the general you ) truly saved?

We can know, don't get me wrong. Just want to point out there are many who believe they are saved and are not.

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

John 3:16-18 (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Nothing at all about being a nice person, no worse than the next guy, ignorant (agnostic), doers of mighty miracles in whomever's name... just belief on the Messiah who sacrificed himself for us.

Edited May 20, 2011 by JohnDB

[enoob57]

For me, it is so simple. You HAVE TO interpret passages like 2 Thess 2 and Heb 6 in context with John 10:28-29, Jeremiah 32:40, and 1 John 2:19.

To do less is to do what all do who misinterpret the scriptures.

So, what IS your position on the matter?

Ya know what? I think that this is the first time that I have participated in a conversation on this topic that has actually been civil, no insults thrown around, no hurt feelings, no accusations! This is so great!

Bible teaches once you are saved, you are eternally saved. Eternally secure.

Question is... are you ( the general you ) truly saved?

We can know, don't get me wrong. Just want to point out there are many who believe they are saved and are not.

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

John 3:16-18 (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Nothing at all about being a nice person, no worse than the next guy, ignorant (agnostic), doers of mighty miracles in whomever's name... just belief on the Messiah who sacrificed himself for us.

We are all on different levels of working out our salvation in fear and trembling...

I think it healthy to doubt self but trust God in that He is the only One who really knows the heart anyway! I have had personal evidence of The Witness of The Holy Spirit within and that is heart thrilling for I have had more assurance from that aspect than all else.... It is like having God whisper I am here, it is I be not afraid!!! Love Steven