Ez 37 - 38

[OneLight]

The nation is alive; it has the breath of life. We are awaiting the final spiritual restoration and that will, according to Paul, be an amazing benefit to the world.

It was once explained to me that the ministry of the 144,000 is to bring Gods truth of salvation to the Jewish people of Israel. Do you see it this way also?

I don't see that they are preachers or missionaries. The Bible says this:

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

(Rev 14:1-5)

Allow me to ask more questions. Do you believe that this is just a snapshot of an event in the future or is it an everlasting picture of their purpose? Do you believe that these 144,000 will actually follow Christ everywhere He goes physically or do you believe that they spiritually follow Christ in everything, being without fault? Do you believe they will not minister to anyone or will also proclaim the truth to whomever they come across, which would be those in the land of Israel?

Just trying to understand how you interpret the scripture you provided.

[rollinTHUNDER]

I'm really a novice when it comes to prophecy. I'm wondering where we are currently at in Ez 37-38? Is this timeline even in order? A few times we see Israel gathered together back into it's land but I sense it's really only the one time.

I can understand how we get to about Ez 37:13, from there I am not sure because it still appears as if Israel is not serving the Lord in Spirit. They are not yet filled with His Spirit.

Hi candice,

Did you mean Ezek. 36 & 37?

In chapter 36, we see a prophecy about Israel regaining possession of their ancient promised land. This is currently happening today.

In chapter, 37, however, I do not see it the way many scholars see it today. These are not about the same thing in my opinion. I believe this chapter is a prophecy about the resurrection. God promised that all Israel will be saved. This prophecy is about the resurrection of the old covenant saints. The Jews were looking forward to the resurrection, where we new covenant saints call it the rapture today, but they are both a resurrection.

Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. (24)Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. (25)Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: (26)And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John 11:23-26)

It seems kind of funny, in a way, because most scholars today have completely left the old covenant saints out of this picture, but God will not forget them. All we ever hear is that Christ is returning for His church and/or bride, but you will not find that in the scriptures, not even in the new testament. All of His righteous ones (old & new) will be included in the first resurrection.

The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great— and for destroying those who destroy the earth. (Revelation 11:18)

But the old covenant saints were also in Christ. They were looking forward to the promises by faith, where today, we are looking back at the fulfillments of those prophesies, but Christ died once, for all.

His faithful old covenant servants and prophets will be there in the rapture. They will be among the dead in Christ at the rapture. However, not all of Israel were His servants. Most were not, but to those who were obedient and kept His commands, these will be resurrected and live on the earth again (not raptured into the clouds). They will be raised up and go back into the promised land, which is what this prophecy shows in Ezek.37. But the disobedient Jews will be cut off.

Ezek. 38 is a prophecy about the Russia/Arab alliance that will attack Israel in the middle of the tribulation. This will probably be the start of Armageddon, which will be fought on many fronts and have several different phases. Eventually all nations will be drawn into this war, and in the end they will attack Christ and His armies.

Ezek. 39 shows Gog returning after the millennial Reign of Christ to gather the nations against Israel again. Many don't believe Ezek. 38 occurs in the tribulation, because they see Gog after the millennium. They assume that Gog is a man, but he is the prince over the territory of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, which I believe is one of Satan's chief princes (angel), like the angel Michael, one of God's chief princes, who protects God's people, which is why Gog is seen again over 1000 years later.

Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying, (2) “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him, (3) and say, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. (Ezekiel 38:1-3)

But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. (Daniel 10:13)

[~candice~]

I haven't forgotten the OT saints. I believe they rise before we do in the rapture, which occurs at the second coming. This is the first resurrection. The second resurrection is at the end of the millennial reign.

[other one]

I'm not sure that Russia is the country that is going to attack Israel with Iran and a few other countries. The places that Magog and his sons went to and settled was more Turkey than Russia.

[rollinTHUNDER]

I'm not sure that Russia is the country that is going to attack Israel with Iran and a few other countries. The places that Magog and his sons went to and settled was more Turkey than Russia.

Hi other one,

I sometimes wonder the same thing. It's really hard to tell from the ancient maps. According to the Bible Atlas I have, Meshech, Tubal and Togarmah were in Asia minor, which is where Turkey is located today. These are all south of the Black sea. Gomer is on the west side (Romania & Ukraine), but Magog is on the north side, which is extreme north (Russia). One thing that is undeniable is that Russia, is also the nation that supplies weapons to all of the other countries mentioned.

But as you say, Turkey will definitely be a key player in this. In fact, it was because of this prophecy that I knew Turkey would not join the EU, even after they applied for membership.

[other one]

I'm not sure that Russia is the country that is going to attack Israel with Iran and a few other countries. The places that Magog and his sons went to and settled was more Turkey than Russia.

Hi other one,

I sometimes wonder the same thing. It's really hard to tell from the ancient maps. According to the Bible Atlas I have, Meshech, Tubal and Togarmah were in Asia minor, which is where Turkey is located today. These are all south of the Black sea. Gomer is on the west side (Romania & Ukraine), but Magog is on the north side, which is extreme north (Russia). One thing that is undeniable is that Russia, is also the nation that supplies weapons to all of the other countries mentioned.

But as you say, Turkey will definitely be a key player in this. In fact, it was because of this prophecy that I knew Turkey would not join the EU, even after they applied for membership.

Turkey didn't seem to fit in in the EU. i don't think I paid that much attention to Turkey at all until recently.

[mizzdy]

I'm not sure that Russia is the country that is going to attack Israel with Iran and a few other countries. The places that Magog and his sons went to and settled was more Turkey than Russia.

Hi other one,

I sometimes wonder the same thing. It's really hard to tell from the ancient maps. According to the Bible Atlas I have, Meshech, Tubal and Togarmah were in Asia minor, which is where Turkey is located today. These are all south of the Black sea. Gomer is on the west side (Romania & Ukraine), but Magog is on the north side, which is extreme north (Russia). One thing that is undeniable is that Russia, is also the nation that supplies weapons to all of the other countries mentioned.

But as you say, Turkey will definitely be a key player in this. In fact, it was because of this prophecy that I knew Turkey would not join the EU, even after they applied for membership.

Turkey didn't seem to fit in in the EU. i don't think I paid that much attention to Turkey at all until recently.

Glad your seeing Turkey my way Sam! (sorry couldn't resist!) It was Germany really who kept Turkey out of the EU I wondered why until I started reading about the growing friendship between Turkey, Germany and Russia. Theres a lot of stuff going on in the EU, I read in Stratfor that it may end up in four blocks of economic trading and such. Turkey it seems is gearing up for some kind of confrontation with Syria and Lebanon which could even bring about the destruction of Damascus and possibly even the palestinians all in one sweep. That would give Israel that 'peace' and 'unwalled' status and even provide the 'ac' in due time. Theres a lot of news stuff coming out of Israel suggesting Israel and Turkey are mending fences and agreeing on some kind of strategy concerning Syria. There are people fleeing Syria trying to get away from Assads persecution.

If we go and look at where Japheths sons settled you see the whole region all the way up to So. Russian, Armenia, all the way to Germany also I believe. But Magog is primarily within these borders, Scythians, Slavs, Russians, Bulgarians, Bohemians, Poland, Slovaks, and the Croatians. The region today is an up and coming place for islam also. Its been my opinion for a very long time Turkey would play a very important part in the end times scenario.

shalom,

Mizz

[Guest yod]

The attack comes from Gog and Magog.

"Gog" is the land of the Gogians (Georgia) and MaGog are the people "from Gog" which is where the Persians (Iran) come from.

Currently, Russia is in control of the Caucus regions of Georgia.

[Littlelambseativy]

[Littlelambseativy]

I'm not sure that Russia is the country that is going to attack Israel with Iran and a few other countries. The places that Magog and his sons went to and settled was more Turkey than Russia.

Hi other one,

I sometimes wonder the same thing. It's really hard to tell from the ancient maps. According to the Bible Atlas I have, Meshech, Tubal and Togarmah were in Asia minor, which is where Turkey is located today. These are all south of the Black sea. Gomer is on the west side (Romania & Ukraine), but Magog is on the north side, which is extreme north (Russia). One thing that is undeniable is that Russia, is also the nation that supplies weapons to all of the other countries mentioned.

But as you say, Turkey will definitely be a key player in this. In fact, it was because of this prophecy that I knew Turkey would not join the EU, even after they applied for membership.

Turkey didn't seem to fit in in the EU. i don't think I paid that much attention to Turkey at all until recently.

Glad your seeing Turkey my way Sam! (sorry couldn't resist!) It was Germany really who kept Turkey out of the EU I wondered why until I started reading about the growing friendship between Turkey, Germany and Russia. Theres a lot of stuff going on in the EU, I read in Stratfor that it may end up in four blocks of economic trading and such. Turkey it seems is gearing up for some kind of confrontation with Syria and Lebanon which could even bring about the destruction of Damascus and possibly even the palestinians all in one sweep. That would give Israel that 'peace' and 'unwalled' status and even provide the 'ac' in due time. Theres a lot of news stuff coming out of Israel suggesting Israel and Turkey are mending fences and agreeing on some kind of strategy concerning Syria. There are people fleeing Syria trying to get away from Assads persecution.

If we go and look at where Japheths sons settled you see the whole region all the way up to So. Russian, Armenia, all the way to Germany also I believe. But Magog is primarily within these borders, Scythians, Slavs, Russians, Bulgarians, Bohemians, Poland, Slovaks, and the Croatians. The region today is an up and coming place for islam also. Its been my opinion for a very long time Turkey would play a very important part in the end times scenario.

shalom,

Mizz

Saw this today - coincides with what you are talking about.

Preparing The Hordes of Magog - Why Is The Largest Army In The Middle East About To Double Its Size?

http://www.bibleprophecyblog.com/

With Prime Minister Erdogan's Islamist AK party having seized its third landslide election victory in Turkey, many throughout the international community have been watching to see what will be next on the Turkish agenda.

Now there are strong indicators in the Turkish media that Turkey is planning on literally doubling the size of its army – this coming from the nation that already has the largest army in Middle East and the second-largest army in NATO, second only to the United States. Presently, Turkey's army has over 500,000 troops. Its army is larger than France, Germany and England combined. And now Turkish media are reporting that they are planning on adding another 500,000 paid soldiers.

According to Egemen Bağış, a state minister and Turkey's chief EU negotiator, the purpose of the army is to kill two birds with one stone, overcoming two of Turkey's biggest challenges: terrorism and unemployment. This move would create half a million new jobs for Turkey while answering once and for all Turkey's problem with Kurdish separatist terrorists in the southeast.

Bağış spoke to journalists at the Turkish ambassador's office in Brussels. "The government is prepared to hire 500,000 people. ... This structural change will also contribute to our struggle with unemployment," he said.

Turkey's nation defense minister, Vedci Gonul, stated that the new army is "the future of Turkey." But he also said that the actual number of paid soldiers is yet to be determined pending a government study. According to Gonul, the creation of such a large army could take several years to complete.

A poll conducted shows that 80 percent of Turks support the idea while only 9 percent are opposed.

Despite the government's claims that the purpose of the army would be to address terrorism, skepticism concerning such a massive force is well-deserved. First of all, creating an army this size merely to address Turkey's terrorism problem, primarily from the PKK, a Kurdish separatist group in the southeast, would be like trying to kill an ant using a nuclear warhead. Secondly, such a move certainly will only reinforce the concerns of those who believe that Turkey has broad-ranging neo-Ottoman regional aspirations.

The silence of the Western media has been surprising. Imagine Israel announcing an expansion of its forces by 500,000 men to address its Palestinian terrorism problem. Yet the Western media has yet to comment regarding Turkey's grandiose plans.

Such an expansion would be particularly concerning in light of the Turkish government's recent swing toward Islamist political alliances. They have worked to significantly reinforce strategic alliances with both Iran and Syria, two of the most well-established state sponsors of terrorism globally, while significantly cooling its relationship with Israel and the United States. Despite this, the Obama administration this past January, sold the Turkish Air Force 100 F-35 Lightning II fighter jets. Turkey already manufactures it's own F-16s.

It is also essential to once again remind ourselves of the recent accomplishments of the Islamist AK party under Prime Minister Erdogan's leadership. In just the past several years, the AK party has edged ever closer to establishing a full-blown dictatorship, all in the name of democracy. Since 2002, they have managed to accomplish the following:

•occupy the presidency;

•occupy the seat of prime minister;

•gain a large majority of seats in the parliament;

•fill the judiciary with Islamist-leaning judges;

•behead the top echelons of the military;

•infiltrate the police force (over 70 percent of officers are members the Islamist Gulen movement);

•intimidate and imprison Turkish journalists (there are more Turkish journalists in prison than any other nation in the world – more than China or Iran).

The nation's leadership is now working toward a bill authorizing them to rewrite the Turkish Constitution, giving them far more sweeping powers over the military and judiciary.

In last month's victory speech, Prime Minister Erdogan couldn't have made his regional ambitions any clearer:

"Believe me, Sarajevo won today as much as Istanbul, Beirut won as much as Izmir, Damascus won as much as Ankara, Ramallah, Nablus, Jenin, the West Bank, Jerusalem won as much as Diyarbakir."

In a follow up commentary piece, J.E. Dyer, a retired U.S. Naval intelligence officer asked how the world would take it if Nicolas Sarkozy had proclaimed that a victory for him was a victory for Moscow as much as Paris, for Washington as much as Lyon, for Ankara as much as Marseilles. Dyer then very appropriately reminded us that such comments are, "imperialist at worst, absurdly arrogant at best – to speak of your electoral victories as conferring benefits on foreign humanity – especially on those once occupied by your nation in its days of empire."

For years, several others and I have been warning of Turkey's neo-Ottoman dreams and regional ambitions. And for just as many years, the compliant left-wing media has mocked the notion. Within the next several years, with doubling of the Turkish army, it appears as though there will be 500,000 more reasons to worry about Turkey's regional ascension.