What is the new covenant?

[other one]

Who is the author of the covenant? Who gave Moses the law, why did Judah and Tamar follow Torah when Torah had not been given? Who is the author of the Torah? Was the Torah ever meant as any means of salvation? Torah is not meant to save only Messiah can do that, Moses Torah was not meant to save either, Yeshua did not do away with His instructions. What most do not ever seem to understand is that no commandment other than to believe in who He will be and who He is, its by faith in Him that brings us into the covenant nothing more and nothing less.

Again define love biblically, according to scriptures we are to love God with all our hearts, we are to put Him first, we are to carry that love and service to everyone we meet or encounter. Yet God tells us if we love Him we will keep His Torah once we come to faith in Him that obedience is the natural step, so what do we obey? love? abstain from meat offered to idols and why is that, its a Torah command and not one repeated by Messiah. Seems that the Torah of Moses was given to him by God, Messiahs Torah is the same Torah with more a twist, He made it harder to follow yet He also gave us His Spirit so we can overcome.

Jesus told us that we should keep his commandments, not the torah.

[mizzdy]

Who is the author of the covenant? Who gave Moses the law, why did Judah and Tamar follow Torah when Torah had not been given? Who is the author of the Torah? Was the Torah ever meant as any means of salvation? Torah is not meant to save only Messiah can do that, Moses Torah was not meant to save either, Yeshua did not do away with His instructions. What most do not ever seem to understand is that no commandment other than to believe in who He will be and who He is, its by faith in Him that brings us into the covenant nothing more and nothing less.

Again define love biblically, according to scriptures we are to love God with all our hearts, we are to put Him first, we are to carry that love and service to everyone we meet or encounter. Yet God tells us if we love Him we will keep His Torah once we come to faith in Him that obedience is the natural step, so what do we obey? love? abstain from meat offered to idols and why is that, its a Torah command and not one repeated by Messiah. Seems that the Torah of Moses was given to him by God, Messiahs Torah is the same Torah with more a twist, He made it harder to follow yet He also gave us His Spirit so we can overcome.

Jesus told us that we should keep his commandments, not the torah.

Depends on how you view the word 'law' 'commandments', they are instructions, Torah means instruction and isnt that what He gave us to live by? The 10 commandments are a set of instructions. Torah is not 'law' in the idea of the greek way of thinking it which is how most view the NT. A set of instructions left to us to learn to live in a righteous way before Him, and a set of instructions on how to love and get along with others, within the Torah/instruction God gave the Israelites a way to govern their daily lives with one another, how to handle business, etc. If we applied those very same things in our life we would be walking on the same path as our Messiah, the Torah is not left to us for salvation but instruction to live a life God calls pleasing. If Yeshua is God in the flesh and I certainly believe He is why would He change everything and not lay it all out on all the changes? Even within the Jerusalem council we see that James gives a set of rules for newly brought in pagan gentiles so they can learn to become a set apart people and then James even goes on to say that they will learn Moses in the synagogues for more instructions. What gets me is that so many see all of Judaism wrapped up in the word 'Torah' and that God left us hanging in some state of love with no real set of instructions on how to walk in His in that love and grace. He even sends us His Spirit to write that very Torah on our hearts so we can be brought into a right relationship with Him otherwise why would He tell us so many times, 'if you love Me you will keep my commandments/Torah.

Again the Torah was not meant to bring anyone salvation, Gods commandments are not what gives us life, He, Yeshua the Messiah that was promised in the beginning to bring salvation and eternal life, His blood shed on the cross is what reconciles us back to Him. When we are given such a free gift why wouldnt anyone want to walk in and do the things that show us how to live rightly before Him and rightly with our neighbors, walk in the very ways of Yeshua? I am not really addressing this to you Sam I am sorry if it sees that way, its just been boggling my mind the lengths I see some go to to try and explain why Yeshua is so different than that mean old God of the OT, that Yeshua left that old stuff behind when He died that what He did before that didnt matter at all.

shalom,

Mizz

[Guest]

Torah Good

Me Bad

Jesus Saves

Jesus In Me Good

Me In Jesus Good

Torah Good

[Guest shiloh357]

Who is the author of the covenant? Who gave Moses the law, why did Judah and Tamar follow Torah when Torah had not been given? Who is the author of the Torah? Was the Torah ever meant as any means of salvation? Torah is not meant to save only Messiah can do that, Moses Torah was not meant to save either, Yeshua did not do away with His instructions. What most do not ever seem to understand is that no commandment other than to believe in who He will be and who He is, its by faith in Him that brings us into the covenant nothing more and nothing less.

Again define love biblically, according to scriptures we are to love God with all our hearts, we are to put Him first, we are to carry that love and service to everyone we meet or encounter. Yet God tells us if we love Him we will keep His Torah once we come to faith in Him that obedience is the natural step, so what do we obey? love? abstain from meat offered to idols and why is that, its a Torah command and not one repeated by Messiah. Seems that the Torah of Moses was given to him by God, Messiahs Torah is the same Torah with more a twist, He made it harder to follow yet He also gave us His Spirit so we can overcome.

Jesus told us that we should keep his commandments, not the torah.

Jesus' commandments are the full expression of the Torah. You cannot follow Jesus and not keep the Torah. While there are aspects of the Torah that only apply to Israel, the moral aspects of the Torah are universal and wholly applicable to modern believers.

[other one]

Who is the author of the covenant? Who gave Moses the law, why did Judah and Tamar follow Torah when Torah had not been given? Who is the author of the Torah? Was the Torah ever meant as any means of salvation? Torah is not meant to save only Messiah can do that, Moses Torah was not meant to save either, Yeshua did not do away with His instructions. What most do not ever seem to understand is that no commandment other than to believe in who He will be and who He is, its by faith in Him that brings us into the covenant nothing more and nothing less.

Again define love biblically, according to scriptures we are to love God with all our hearts, we are to put Him first, we are to carry that love and service to everyone we meet or encounter. Yet God tells us if we love Him we will keep His Torah once we come to faith in Him that obedience is the natural step, so what do we obey? love? abstain from meat offered to idols and why is that, its a Torah command and not one repeated by Messiah. Seems that the Torah of Moses was given to him by God, Messiahs Torah is the same Torah with more a twist, He made it harder to follow yet He also gave us His Spirit so we can overcome.

Jesus told us that we should keep his commandments, not the Torah.

Jesus' commandments are the full expression of the Torah. You cannot follow Jesus and not keep the Torah. While there are aspects of the Torah that only apply to Israel, the moral aspects of the Torah are universal and wholly applicable to modern believers.

Moses's Torah is on the physical scale and instills fear of God into people.... Jesus's Torah if that's what we want to cal lit instills a deep love of not only God but our fellow man along with it. The rewards for living Moses's Torah was a happy long physical life, the rewards for Jesus's Torah is to become the sons of God and eternal life.

The rules of Moses's Torah are basically do this and don't do that, and the rules of Jesus's Torah are spiritual and in the mind.

I do agree with you that if you keep the Torah of Jesus you will not break the ten commandments, but you can keep the ten commandments your whole life and still go to hell, for they will not make the internal changes in a person that would let him/her fit into heaven.

As for the other laws and ordnances, the ones about avoiding sex outside marriage and eating blood and strangled meet are the only ones that we are supposed to follow, and those are for physical things.....

And I agree with some of the others....... it's a whole new covenant, not just a renewal of an old.

i must add though that I do not have a problem with anyone keeping the Mosiac Torah if they want to do so. It might actually give them a long happy life...... unless they push that onto others or unless they do so out of pride. "Lood at me, I'm a Jew" is not acceptable in my world.

And the Babylonian Talmud is a whole other story.

[enoob57]

Torah Good

Me Bad

Jesus Saves

Jesus In Me Good

Me In Jesus Good

Torah Good

I agree Joe... I cannot find one portion of His Precious Word- whether the telling of the wrong or the testimony of the Good that does not draw me to Himself! As the days pass and the more I dwell with Him in His Word the more clearly I see the frailty of the temptation! For it offers the rotten and dying in place of The Perfect and Living... Truly just one glimpse of The Who of The Son would melt the heart of stone! Thank you for your faithfulness to His Scripture in witness of Him Here! Love, Steven

[mizzdy]

Who is the author of the covenant? Who gave Moses the law, why did Judah and Tamar follow Torah when Torah had not been given? Who is the author of the Torah? Was the Torah ever meant as any means of salvation? Torah is not meant to save only Messiah can do that, Moses Torah was not meant to save either, Yeshua did not do away with His instructions. What most do not ever seem to understand is that no commandment other than to believe in who He will be and who He is, its by faith in Him that brings us into the covenant nothing more and nothing less.

Again define love biblically, according to scriptures we are to love God with all our hearts, we are to put Him first, we are to carry that love and service to everyone we meet or encounter. Yet God tells us if we love Him we will keep His Torah once we come to faith in Him that obedience is the natural step, so what do we obey? love? abstain from meat offered to idols and why is that, its a Torah command and not one repeated by Messiah. Seems that the Torah of Moses was given to him by God, Messiahs Torah is the same Torah with more a twist, He made it harder to follow yet He also gave us His Spirit so we can overcome.

Jesus told us that we should keep his commandments, not the torah.

Jesus' commandments are the full expression of the Torah. You cannot follow Jesus and not keep the Torah. While there are aspects of the Torah that only apply to Israel, the moral aspects of the Torah are universal and wholly applicable to modern believers.

I so agree that Yeshua is the fullness of the Torah, He is the Word, He is everything. Thing is people see the word Torah and run simply because they see some 'Jewish' thing or that its only for Jewish people period. I often ask someone who is so anti-Torah or anti-law to write down all the things they do that they believe is obedience, I always get 'I love my family, I love God, I dont kill people' but when pointed out that is Torah well I get some of the weirdest responses imaginable. There are many commandments we cannot keep, temple related and such things but the rest yes we keep them if we belong to Him since they are the very things being written on our heart today. After all they are all moral, relationship and congregational all set to show us how to relate first to Him and to one another.

[mizzdy]

Who is the author of the covenant? Who gave Moses the law, why did Judah and Tamar follow Torah when Torah had not been given? Who is the author of the Torah? Was the Torah ever meant as any means of salvation? Torah is not meant to save only Messiah can do that, Moses Torah was not meant to save either, Yeshua did not do away with His instructions. What most do not ever seem to understand is that no commandment other than to believe in who He will be and who He is, its by faith in Him that brings us into the covenant nothing more and nothing less.

Again define love biblically, according to scriptures we are to love God with all our hearts, we are to put Him first, we are to carry that love and service to everyone we meet or encounter. Yet God tells us if we love Him we will keep His Torah once we come to faith in Him that obedience is the natural step, so what do we obey? love? abstain from meat offered to idols and why is that, its a Torah command and not one repeated by Messiah. Seems that the Torah of Moses was given to him by God, Messiahs Torah is the same Torah with more a twist, He made it harder to follow yet He also gave us His Spirit so we can overcome.

Jesus told us that we should keep his commandments, not the Torah.

Jesus' commandments are the full expression of the Torah. You cannot follow Jesus and not keep the Torah. While there are aspects of the Torah that only apply to Israel, the moral aspects of the Torah are universal and wholly applicable to modern believers.

Moses's Torah is on the physical scale and instills fear of God into people.... Jesus's Torah if that's what we want to cal lit instills a deep love of not only God but our fellow man along with it. The rewards for living Moses's Torah was a happy long physical life, the rewards for Jesus's Torah is to become the sons of God and eternal life.

The rules of Moses's Torah are basically do this and don't do that, and the rules of Jesus's Torah are spiritual and in the mind.

I do agree with you that if you keep the Torah of Jesus you will not break the ten commandments, but you can keep the ten commandments your whole life and still go to hell, for they will not make the internal changes in a person that would let him/her fit into heaven.

As for the other laws and ordnances, the ones about avoiding sex outside marriage and eating blood and strangled meet are the only ones that we are supposed to follow, and those are for physical things.....

And I agree with some of the others....... it's a whole new covenant, not just a renewal of an old.

i must add though that I do not have a problem with anyone keeping the Mosiac Torah if they want to do so. It might actually give them a long happy life...... unless they push that onto others or unless they do so out of pride. "Lood at me, I'm a Jew" is not acceptable in my world.

And the Babylonian Talmud is a whole other story.

Who said a word about 'being Jewish' or the Talmud? The Talmud belongs to Rabbinical Judaism and that was not what was in place at the time of Messiah although one can certainly see the bent towards rabbi only thinking. We may call it the law of Moses but its not his in fact it was God who gave Him the Torah for all of His set apart people. God built blessings and curses into obedience, we find that He said if you do these things I will bless you and if you do not I will curse you. God sent His Spirit to help us keep His Torah so we can walk in Torah and be blessed through obedience. The Jerusalem Council was not about only doing a few things James and the rest gave these pagan gentiles strict guidelines to live by which effectively cut off their old lifestyle allowing them to come into fellowship with those who already were following the Torah. By putting those restrictions it allowed them to come and eat with likeminded people, so they were able to witness the behavior God said is pleasing to Him, not that it was 'oh by the way we have decided that you pagan gentiles should do only this stuff and we will start new things through you' kinda mentality. James also said that those new members into the already existing body would learn Torah in the synagogues each Sabbath.

The idea that God started something new is not within scriptures, the idea that He came to die and start a new religions, congregational, set apart people is no where found in scriptures. We do see through the prophets writing that the gentiles would be added to the body when the Messiah would come, we see the promise of the indwellng of the Spirit also. Where do we find God telling His prophets that a brand spanking new covenant would come? Please show me in the prophets a brand new covenant, show me where God said I will change the way I do everything, I will change my Torah. Yeshua is the embodiment of Torah, He walked it perfectly so we could know that we walk in the ways He did and He sent His Spirit to enable us in His ways. God does not change, Gods word is straight and true, if Yeshua came to do away with that then God does change, has changed I just cannot go there Sam, just cannot find one instance where God makes these changes and then goes on to show the same systems of things thoughout the whole of scriptures. Everyone wants to show why things are so wrong with this world, people cling to prophecy but do not understand it, everyone argues and debate over the same scriptures and still no understandings come of them, people make claims that God hates this or that and use OT only scriptures yet scream when 'Torah' is mentioned because that was nailed to the cross. We cannot have it our way, its His way, His rules, His path, His grace, His Words. If God changes so much that His Torah is just down to 10 sayings then where is the structure of the church, which comes directly from the temple services to start. We fail to see how much of Torah we do walk in all the while screaming everythings brand new and done away with, makes no sense at all.

[other one]

Heb 8:1-10

8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

A NEW covenant because the first had faults...... not a renewing of the old one, but a new one. A better one not according to the first one.

Jer 31:31-32

31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt,

NASB

[other one]

Mizz, the reason why things are so wrong in this world is that because it belongs to Satan. It will not become the kingdom of our Lord until the Seventh angel sounds his trumpet. Until then we are a people out of place in the world we are forced to exist in.