Those days shall be shortened

[JohnD]

Shalom, Montana Marv.

What is the possible meaning of: Matt 24:22 - If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened.

A few things to consider is that the Godhead cannot change prophecy once it is given. With this in mind, the last One Seven of Daniel 9:24,27 is a One Seven with two 3 1/2 year periods. All the Seal, Trumpet, and Bowl judgements are fulfilled. The Great Distress of Matt 24:21 is the last 3 1/2 year period.

Now with the 6th Seal there is a disturbance (the whole moon turns blood red).

Rev 8:7 - Hail and fire mixed with blood was hurled to earth; a third of the earth was burned up.

Rev 8:8 - Something like a huge mountain , all ablaze was hurled into the sea and one third of the sea turned to blood.

Rev 8:10 - And a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on one third of the rivers.

What will the heat index upon the earth be like with these three Trumpets. It will greatly increase; maybe to the point that no one could survive.

But now Rev 8:12 - a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night. (more cooling)

One has, Heat, Heat, and Heat put upon the earth, then Cooling. The days have been cut short.

Now a look at Matt 24:29 - Immediately after the distress of those days; the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give off its light.

Compare: Rev 6:12 - the whole moon turns blood red (it still gives off a full reflection).... Rev 8:12 - a third of the moon turns dark.... Matt 24:29 - the moon will not give off its light. (it goes dark)

Just something to think about. There is a progression.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Yeshua` was fairly clear about the "thlipsis," (Strong's NT:2347) the "pressure" or "distress" or "trouble" about to be put upon those to whom the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple meant the most, the Jews! The word occurs three times in Matthew 24 (verses 9 "be afflicted", 21 "tribulation", and 29 "tribulation") and twice in Mark 13 (verses 19 "affliction" and 24 "tribulation").

The "thlipsin" (a gerund noun; a "pressing" or "distressing" or "troubling") started in Matthew 24:9 when they (the ones who come claiming to be the Messiah) deliver His disciples up "into a pressing"; it could have continued far worse IF they had not prayed as instructed in verses 20-21, and it will end just before verse 29. Understanding that this started in the first century with Yeshua`s immediate disciples, it will continue until the signs of the sun, moon, and stars appear in the future.

Thus, the "tribulation" is NOT a mere seven years long, but has been going on close to 2000 years now (from 66-70 A.D. to the present year of 2012 A.D.)! That "pressure," that "distress" will be reduced from time to time so as not to totally annihilate the Jews and this periodic reduction is what Yeshua` meant by verse 22. Instead of the word "shortened," think rather "limited":

Matthew 24:22

22 And except those days should be limited, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be limited.

KJV

Another clue many miss is that Judaism will be in most favored religious status at the time the beast defiles the Temple. Jesus said himself flee when you see these things happen... and pray your flight is not on the Sabbath. This could only mean Jewish officials in charge of the Holy Land at the time see no harm in the beast ascending to the Temple (meaning he will be himself Jewish and believed by the Jews to be their promised Messiah). This will be a time of great deception insomuch as if it were possible the very elect (that's Christians) would be deceived. Imagine a man coming on the scene who claims to be the real Messiah and who was from Judea 2000 years ago and he could prove he was there by DNA / blood content etc.

Such an one could gain the trust and belief of just about anybody of any creed or religion or atheism... and then what if he went on to say he was sacrificed for our sins but an imposter took his place and led a band of deceivers to spread the falsehood that Jesus was the Messiah and not he who is the true Messiah... and he will do lying signs and wonders even calling fire down from heaven before men... and eventually he will claim to be God and take his seat atop the ark of the covenant in the holiest place in the Temple.

And before that he will make Christians out to be liars and deceivers and the cause of all the ills of mankind since 2000 years ago. Read that "the world will hate you for my names sake... and brother will betray brother to death and a child their parents etc. Sound familiar? We will be despised by all because our existence will interrupt whatever the beast will promise in a package deal to the world enlightenment, heaven, whatever but so long as Christians live we will by our very lives hinder this transformation... 666 will be the tracking system using it to hunt down the one people on earth who will not receive it. Remember this means no buying food or shelter or medicine or clothes...

When the rapture finally does take place (for the purposes of removing all believers before God's wrath is unleashed on the devil and the world) those few believers who survive to that point 3.5 years into the 70th Week of Daniel (SWD) will be s far underground in hiding that their sudden disappearance will go completely unnoticed. In fact the world and the beast most likely will have thought Christians already extinct before that time.

Something to think about something to pray about.

[douggg]

It means if the days were more in number than they will be, no flesh would be spared. God is rarely early when he intervenes. He is never late. He usually comes in at the razor thin last moment. But in this case he meant that the latter tribulation is shortened by the fact that the former tribulation is lengthened in the 70th Week of Daniel (two tribulations approximately 3.5 years each the first is actually longer and the second that much shorter).

John, blessed are those who remain to the 1335th day. You have the 1335th day in the middle part of the 7 years. Does that make sense to you? The 1335th days is the day that Jesus returns on the last day of the seven years.

Put the point of the 1335 day arrow on day 2520. At the tail of the arrow will be day 1185 - which will be the day that the AOD will be setup to be worshiped.

Doug

You presuppose there is no rapture and that the gathering in will be at the second coming of the Lord.

Revelation 3:10 (KJV)

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

This is prophetic of the tribulation Church. Notice I did not say Great Tribulation. The Great Tribulation is in the last half of the SWD when Satan reneges on his affirmaton of the Mosaic covenant and the world turns on the Jews the way it turned on the Christians in the first half of the SWD.

That will make the one rapture pre-Great Tribulation mid-SWD, and post-believer's tribulation. So... the rapture is all three pre / mid / post once you understand that the SWD is two 3.5 year tribulations and not one 7-year tribulation. Oh, and hat there will be a rapture before the second coming of Christ.

Hi John, I do believe that there will be a rapture. I believe it will be pre-70th week rapture. I take it that you are placing the rapture on day 1335. That is highly unlikely because we don't know the day nor hour. Also Daniel 12 addresses the Jews. The rapture is for Christians. As a group, the Jews will not become Christians until the second half. And it is at the end of the 70th week that Jesus returns to save them in Zechariah 14 - which it will not be by a rapture according to the text of Zechariah 14, but by escaping through a valley created when the Lord's foot touches down on the Mt. of Olives.

There is not going to be two 3.5 year tribulations because the Antichrist person goes through (four) stages of his career. For most of the first 3.5 years, the Antichrist will be in his false King Messiah stage. The world will be in relative peace at that time because in 1thessalonians5:3 it says when they say peace and safety, sudden destruction will befall them. The sudden destruction will come when the Antichrist enters his man of sin stage, when he goes into the temple and declares that he is God, sometime right before day 1185.

The great tribulation is tied to when the AOD is setup to be worshiped, Matthew 24:15-21. So on the timeline, the AOD will be setup to be worshiped on day 1185, leaving the remaining 1335 days of the 7 years to be the great tribulation. Those who survive and don't worship the AOD will be blessed when Jesus returns on day 2520.

Doug

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, JohnDB.

Shalom, Montana Marv.

What is the possible meaning of: Matt 24:22 - If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened.

A few things to consider is that the Godhead cannot change prophecy once it is given. With this in mind, the last One Seven of Daniel 9:24,27 is a One Seven with two 3 1/2 year periods. All the Seal, Trumpet, and Bowl judgements are fulfilled. The Great Distress of Matt 24:21 is the last 3 1/2 year period.

Now with the 6th Seal there is a disturbance (the whole moon turns blood red).

Rev 8:7 - Hail and fire mixed with blood was hurled to earth; a third of the earth was burned up.

Rev 8:8 - Something like a huge mountain , all ablaze was hurled into the sea and one third of the sea turned to blood.

Rev 8:10 - And a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on one third of the rivers.

What will the heat index upon the earth be like with these three Trumpets. It will greatly increase; maybe to the point that no one could survive.

But now Rev 8:12 - a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night. (more cooling)

One has, Heat, Heat, and Heat put upon the earth, then Cooling. The days have been cut short.

Now a look at Matt 24:29 - Immediately after the distress of those days; the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give off its light.

Compare: Rev 6:12 - the whole moon turns blood red (it still gives off a full reflection).... Rev 8:12 - a third of the moon turns dark.... Matt 24:29 - the moon will not give off its light. (it goes dark)

Just something to think about. There is a progression.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Yeshua` was fairly clear about the "thlipsis," (Strong's NT:2347) the "pressure" or "distress" or "trouble" about to be put upon those to whom the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple meant the most, the Jews! The word occurs three times in Matthew 24 (verses 9 "be afflicted", 21 "tribulation", and 29 "tribulation") and twice in Mark 13 (verses 19 "affliction" and 24 "tribulation").

The "thlipsin" (a gerund noun; a "pressing" or "distressing" or "troubling") started in Matthew 24:9 when they (the ones who come claiming to be the Messiah) deliver His disciples up "into a pressing"; it could have continued far worse IF they had not prayed as instructed in verses 20-21, and it will end just before verse 29. Understanding that this started in the first century with Yeshua`s immediate disciples, it will continue until the signs of the sun, moon, and stars appear in the future.

Thus, the "tribulation" is NOT a mere seven years long, but has been going on close to 2000 years now (from 66-70 A.D. to the present year of 2012 A.D.)! That "pressure," that "distress" will be reduced from time to time so as not to totally annihilate the Jews and this periodic reduction is what Yeshua` meant by verse 22. Instead of the word "shortened," think rather "limited":

Matthew 24:22

22 And except those days should be limited, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be limited.

KJV

Another clue many miss is that Judaism will be in most favored religious status at the time the beast defiles the Temple. Jesus said himself flee when you see these things happen... and pray your flight is not on the Sabbath. This could only mean Jewish officials in charge of the Holy Land at the time see no harm in the beast ascending to the Temple (meaning he will be himself Jewish and believed by the Jews to be their promised Messiah). This will be a time of great deception insomuch as if it were possible the very elect (that's Christians) would be deceived. Imagine a man coming on the scene who claims to be the real Messiah and who was from Judea 2000 years ago and he could prove he was there by DNA / blood content etc.

Such an one could gain the trust and belief of just about anybody of any creed or religion or atheism... and then what if he went on to say he was sacrificed for our sins but an imposter took his place and led a band of deceivers to spread the falsehood that Jesus was the Messiah and not he who is the true Messiah... and he will do lying signs and wonders even calling fire down from heaven before men... and eventually he will claim to be God and take his seat atop the ark of the covenant in the holiest place in the Temple.

And before that he will make Christians out to be liars and deceivers and the cause of all the ills of mankind since 2000 years ago. Read that "the world will hate you for my names sake... and brother will betray brother to death and a child their parents etc. Sound familiar? We will be despised by all because our existence will interrupt whatever the beast will promise in a package deal to the world enlightenment, heaven, whatever but so long as Christians live we will by our very lives hinder this transformation... 666 will be the tracking system using it to hunt down the one people on earth who will not receive it. Remember this means no buying food or shelter or medicine or clothes...

When the rapture finally does take place (for the purposes of removing all believers before God's wrath is unleashed on the devil and the world) those few believers who survive to that point 3.5 years into the 70th Week of Daniel (SWD) will be s far underground in hiding that their sudden disappearance will go completely unnoticed. In fact the world and the beast most likely will have thought Christians already extinct before that time.

Something to think about something to pray about.

All this, of course, is ASSUMING that Yeshua` was talking about "the beast ascending to the Temple!" I don't believe that is true. It has been a VERY common error for people to suggest that the "abomination of desolation" which Yeshua` mentioned in Matthew 24:15 is talking about the Antichrist (or rather, the Beast) setting up an idol in the Temple! NOT AT ALL! Yeshua` was not talking about Dani'el 11 or 12! He was talking about a fulfillment of Dani'el 9 IN HIS LIFETIME! Again, I'll say this: DO NOT REDUCE THIS PHRASE TO A LABEL!!!

Edited January 31, 2012 by Retrobyter

[exrockstar]

And before that he will make Christians out to be liars and deceivers and the cause of all the ills of mankind since 2000 years ago. Read that "the world will hate you for my names sake... and brother will betray brother to death and a child their parents etc. Sound familiar? We will be despised by all because our existence will interrupt whatever the beast will promise in a package deal to the world enlightenment, heaven, whatever but so long as Christians live we will by our very lives hinder this transformation... 666 will be the tracking system using it to hunt down the one people on earth who will not receive it. Remember this means no buying food or shelter or medicine or clothes...

i thought Jesus was talking to the Jews, that the world will hate them, not hating the Chrisitans.

[rollinTHUNDER]

All this, of course, is ASSUMING that Yeshua` was talking about "the beast ascending to the Temple!" I don't believe that is true. It has been a VERY common error for people to suggest that the "abomination of desolation" which Yeshua` mentioned in Matthew 24:15 is talking about the Antichrist (or rather, the Beast) setting up an idol in the Temple! NOT AT ALL! Yeshua` was not talking about Dani'el 11 or 12! He was talking about a fulfillment of Dani'el 9 IN HIS LIFETIME! Again, I'll say this: DO NOT REDUCE THIS PHRASE TO A LABEL!!!

Not even close! In Daniel 9 we see abominations (plural) and desolations (plural). These are not what Christ was referring to in Matt. 24:15, for this one is (singular) and it will be fulfilled just before the end of the age. Christ was pointing back to the (singular) abomination of desolation that Daniel mentioned in Dan. 11:36-39, which he also mentions again in Daniel 12:9-11.

Matt. 24:14-15

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Daniel 11:36-39

And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

39Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

40And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. (singular and final abomination of desolation)

Daniel 12:8-13

And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

13But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Now how do we know that this singular abomination of desolation will occur at the time of the end. Because there is no denying the resurrection after the time of trouble, which Christ called tribulation, and immediately afterwards He sends the angels to gather His elect (rapture). This should come as no surprise, because Paul later put the two together, as he unveiled this mystery:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

No wonder Daniel was told to shut up the words and seal the book until the time of the end, because it was none other than Christ, Himself, that came about 500 years later and increased the knowledge that Daniel was forbidden to know, and finished Daniel's prophecy.

I know this is not what you believe, but if you want to convince me that the abomination is already past, then you must show me where the resurrection/rapture was fulfilled in the first century.

[Denise37]

1 quest. Are these days, wks, & yrs that are given in the bible.. Are they our time or God's time?? Bc if a yr 4 us is only a day 4 God, then how many yrs would 1335days be 4 us??

[Montana Marv]

Thunder

Thanks

I want to push some of your buttons about the "king" of Daniel 11:36. To do so I will start a new thread. For this discussion will become way Off Topic from this present thread.

The king of Daniel 11:36.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[OneLight]

1 quest. Are these days, wks, & yrs that are given in the bible.. Are they our time or God's time?? Bc if a yr 4 us is only a day 4 God, then how many yrs would 1335days be 4 us??

May I request that you do this old man a favor and spell the words out so I can understand what you are saying without taking a few minutes reading a 43 word statement? To be honest, I may be too old to learn text-talk!

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, exrockstar.

And before that he will make Christians out to be liars and deceivers and the cause of all the ills of mankind since 2000 years ago. Read that "the world will hate you for my names sake... and brother will betray brother to death and a child their parents etc. Sound familiar? We will be despised by all because our existence will interrupt whatever the beast will promise in a package deal to the world enlightenment, heaven, whatever but so long as Christians live we will by our very lives hinder this transformation... 666 will be the tracking system using it to hunt down the one people on earth who will not receive it. Remember this means no buying food or shelter or medicine or clothes...

i thought Jesus was talking to the Jews, that the world will hate them, not hating the Chrisitans.

You're exactly right! Somehow, many "Christians" have made out Scriptures that were intended for the Jews as though they were intended for the "Christians!" But, they do this FREQUENTLY! It's all part of the remnants of the Replacement Theology that was formed in the mire and muck of Antisemitism and Allegorical Interpretation of Scripture in the 200s and 300s A.D., acquiring a foothold under Roman Emperor Constantine.

It's like trying to pull weeds that break off at the surface of the ground; they keep growing back! We just can't seem to get rid of them! It's shameful! It's disgusting! And, IT'S WRONG! That's NOT what the Scriptures teach AT ALL!

However, the anti-Jewish thoughts were so well-ingrained in theological circles, that they completely rooted out their Jewish heritage! They burned all of the manuscripts they could find that were written in Hebrew or Aramaic, and they even killed the Jews, labeling them as "Christ-killers, getting what they deserved!” They changed their holiday rituals from the Pesach (Passover) seder to the Lord’s Supper or the Eucharist, and from Shavu’ot to Pentecost. They changed the Jewish New Year (Rosh HaShannah) and the Feast of Booths (Sukkot) and the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) to an “All Saints Day,” which gave rise to the superstition of an “All Hallowed’s Even,” the Evening before the All Hallowed’s Day (shortened to “Hallowe’en”) when the devils supposedly partied at “one last fling” before being confined by the Day! They changed the mikvah (the Jewish cleansing bath) into the baptismal pool, sometimes known as a font, a piscina (Anglicans), or a sacrarium (RCC), and the tvilah became baptism!

[exrockstar]

You're exactly right! Somehow, many "Christians" have made out Scriptures that were intended for the Jews as though they were intended for the "Christians!" But, they do this FREQUENTLY! It's all part of the remnants of the Replacement Theology that was formed in the mire and muck of Antisemitism and Allegorical Interpretation of Scripture in the 200s and 300s A.D., acquiring a foothold under Roman Emperor Constantine.

It's like trying to pull weeds that break off at the surface of the ground; they keep growing back! We just can't seem to get rid of them! It's shameful! It's disgusting! And, IT'S WRONG! That's NOT what the Scriptures teach AT ALL!

However, the anti-Jewish thoughts were so well-ingrained in theological circles, that they completely rooted out their Jewish heritage! They burned all of the manuscripts they could find that were written in Hebrew or Aramaic, and they even killed the Jews, labeling them as "Christ-killers, getting what they deserved!” They changed their holiday rituals from the Pesach (Passover) seder to the Lord’s Supper or the Eucharist, and from Shavu’ot to Pentecost. They changed the Jewish New Year (Rosh HaShannah) and the Feast of Booths (Sukkot) and the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) to an “All Saints Day,” which gave rise to the superstition of an “All Hallowed’s Even,” the Evening before the All Hallowed’s Day (shortened to “Hallowe’en”) when the devils supposedly partied at “one last fling” before being confined by the Day! They changed the mikvah (the Jewish cleansing bath) into the baptismal pool, sometimes known as a font, a piscina (Anglicans), or a sacrarium (RCC), and the tvilah became baptism!

Hello, im curious if you see Matthew 10:22 as something that has been fulfilled. I'm falling under that impression?