He Did Away With The Law

[th1bill]

Greetings to all of you who came before me over the last 9 pages. Very interesting discussion.

My stance on this issue is not popular to say the least. What the argument boils down to is the offense of the cross. There is an Old Covenant which dealt with covering sin with the blood of bulls and goats. It was replaced with the New Covenant of taking away the sins of man through the blood of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God.

Gary

Gary,

The Bible is the best selling book to ever be written, but it´s message is not popular. The problem springs from this New Covenant idea. There is no ¨New¨ covenant of salvation. Abraham was saved by grace and so is anyone else. The, so called, Mosaic Law was the teacher to the Jew just as it is today to the Christian, that we, all, recognise our sins. The expression of the Covenant with man has changed but the truth of it has and will never change. Even Adam and his children of the first generation are saved, only, by grace.

[th1bill]

I think this thread is titled wrong. It should be "He did away with our sin!" not the law. The law stands, but the penalty for not keeping it has now been permanently paid, by a perfect sacrifice.

I plead guilty! The title was to catch the eye and then to see if folks would read thye content, some did and many did not.

[gdemoss]

Greetings to all of you who came before me over the last 9 pages. Very interesting discussion.

My stance on this issue is not popular to say the least. What the argument boils down to is the offense of the cross. There is an Old Covenant which dealt with covering sin with the blood of bulls and goats. It was replaced with the New Covenant of taking away the sins of man through the blood of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God.

Gary

Gary,

The Bible is the best selling book to ever be written, but it´s message is not popular. The problem springs from this New Covenant idea. There is no ¨New¨ covenant of salvation. Abraham was saved by grace and so is anyone else. The, so called, Mosaic Law was the teacher to the Jew just as it is today to the Christian, that we, all, recognise our sins. The expression of the Covenant with man has changed but the truth of it has and will never change. Even Adam and his children of the first generation are saved, only, by grace.

I agree with you whole heartily that salvation has always been by grace through faith but it was God himself who said that he was going to make a new covenant. It isn't me you disagree with if you think there isn't a new covenant. They are both 'grace' covenants that require 'faith' for salvation. The details of each were slightly different.

Peace unto you in Christ our King,

Gary

[th1bill]

Greetings to all of you who came before me over the last 9 pages. Very interesting discussion.

My stance on this issue is not popular to say the least. What the argument boils down to is the offense of the cross. There is an Old Covenant which dealt with covering sin with the blood of bulls and goats. It was replaced with the New Covenant of taking away the sins of man through the blood of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God.

Gary

Gary,

The Bible is the best selling book to ever be written, but it´s message is not popular. The problem springs from this New Covenant idea. There is no ¨New¨ covenant of salvation. Abraham was saved by grace and so is anyone else. The, so called, Mosaic Law was the teacher to the Jew just as it is today to the Christian, that we, all, recognise our sins. The expression of the Covenant with man has changed but the truth of it has and will never change. Even Adam and his children of the first generation are saved, only, by grace.

I agree with you whole heartily that salvation has always been by grace through faith but it was God himself who said that he was going to make a new covenant. It isn't me you disagree with if you think there isn't a new covenant. They are both 'grace' covenants that require 'faith' for salvation. The details of each were slightly different.

Peace unto you in Christ our King,

Gary

Can you give me the scriptures for your position instead of just accusing me of disagreeing with God? This works best if we do not fight.

[gdemoss]

Greetings to all of you who came before me over the last 9 pages. Very interesting discussion.

My stance on this issue is not popular to say the least. What the argument boils down to is the offense of the cross. There is an Old Covenant which dealt with covering sin with the blood of bulls and goats. It was replaced with the New Covenant of taking away the sins of man through the blood of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God.

Gary

Gary,

The Bible is the best selling book to ever be written, but it´s message is not popular. The problem springs from this New Covenant idea. There is no ¨New¨ covenant of salvation. Abraham was saved by grace and so is anyone else. The, so called, Mosaic Law was the teacher to the Jew just as it is today to the Christian, that we, all, recognise our sins. The expression of the Covenant with man has changed but the truth of it has and will never change. Even Adam and his children of the first generation are saved, only, by grace.

I agree with you whole heartily that salvation has always been by grace through faith but it was God himself who said that he was going to make a new covenant. It isn't me you disagree with if you think there isn't a new covenant. They are both 'grace' covenants that require 'faith' for salvation. The details of each were slightly different.

Peace unto you in Christ our King,

Gary

Can you give me the scriptures for your position instead of just accusing me of disagreeing with God? This works best if we do not fight.

Maybe a poor choice of words on my part in hindsight. Forgive me. I wasn't looking for a fight as I never intentionally do that. Unfortunately, I do not possess the communication skills that keep that from being an end result at times. I meant no offense.

God spoke of the new covenant that he would be making with Israel in the prophets. As the above poster mentioned, the thought carries over into the new testament as well. Thank you to Eleanor73 for providing scripture before I returned to find this.

th1bill, if you would like me to present a more in depth study/response just say the word and I will get to work on putting something together. Thanks for your patience.

Gary

[th1bill]

Greetings to all of you who came before me over the last 9 pages. Very interesting discussion.

My stance on this issue is not popular to say the least. What the argument boils down to is the offense of the cross. There is an Old Covenant which dealt with covering sin with the blood of bulls and goats. It was replaced with the New Covenant of taking away the sins of man through the blood of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God.

Gary

Gary,

The Bible is the best selling book to ever be written, but it´s message is not popular. The problem springs from this New Covenant idea. There is no ¨New¨ covenant of salvation. Abraham was saved by grace and so is anyone else. The, so called, Mosaic Law was the teacher to the Jew just as it is today to the Christian, that we, all, recognise our sins. The expression of the Covenant with man has changed but the truth of it has and will never change. Even Adam and his children of the first generation are saved, only, by grace.

I agree with you whole heartily that salvation has always been by grace through faith but it was God himself who said that he was going to make a new covenant. It isn't me you disagree with if you think there isn't a new covenant. They are both 'grace' covenants that require 'faith' for salvation. The details of each were slightly different.

Peace unto you in Christ our King,

Gary

Can you give me the scriptures for your position instead of just accusing me of disagreeing with God? This works best if we do not fight.

Oh, please let me!

New Covenant idea is from Jesus - "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. . ." (Lk 22:20)

1Co 11:23-25 - "For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you. . .he took the cup saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood.' "

Heb 8:8, 13 - " 'The time is coming, declares the Lord when I will make a new covenant'. . .By calling this covenant new, he has made the first one (Mosaic) obsolete."

The Word of God in Heb makes clear exactly what is meant by new covenant, that is is not a continuation of the old in the form of a "newer" covenant, but that the new covenant negates the Mosaic covenant, making it obsolete.

I know that you are to be respected because f your position as mod here and by now you shoulod have learned that I seek to cause others to study and to not be Pew Whales skirting the edge of Hell. What you just signaled with this is not only rude it is very detremental to the cause o9f Christ. With the ¨oh, let me,¨ Satan´s pride just zoomed!

[th1bill]

Greetings to all of you who came before me over the last 9 pages. Very interesting discussion.

My stance on this issue is not popular to say the least. What the argument boils down to is the offense of the cross. There is an Old Covenant which dealt with covering sin with the blood of bulls and goats. It was replaced with the New Covenant of taking away the sins of man through the blood of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God.

Gary

Gary,

The Bible is the best selling book to ever be written, but it´s message is not popular. The problem springs from this New Covenant idea. There is no ¨New¨ covenant of salvation. Abraham was saved by grace and so is anyone else. The, so called, Mosaic Law was the teacher to the Jew just as it is today to the Christian, that we, all, recognise our sins. The expression of the Covenant with man has changed but the truth of it has and will never change. Even Adam and his children of the first generation are saved, only, by grace.

I agree with you whole heartily that salvation has always been by grace through faith but it was God himself who said that he was going to make a new covenant. It isn't me you disagree with if you think there isn't a new covenant. They are both 'grace' covenants that require 'faith' for salvation. The details of each were slightly different.

Peace unto you in Christ our King,

Gary

Can you give me the scriptures for your position instead of just accusing me of disagreeing with God? This works best if we do not fight.

Maybe a poor choice of words on my part in hindsight. Forgive me. I wasn't looking for a fight as I never intentionally do that. Unfortunately, I do not possess the communication skills that keep that from being an end result at times. I meant no offense.

God spoke of the new covenant that he would be making with Israel in the prophets. As the above poster mentioned, the thought carries over into the new testament as well. Thank you to Eleanor73 for providing scripture before I returned to find this.

th1bill, if you would like me to present a more in depth study/response just say the word and I will get to work on putting something together. Thanks for your patience.

Gary

We´re cool then and no real o9ffence taken among brothers. Right now Iḿ sorry that I did not just it slide because Satan put his foot in the moderators mouth and demonstrated the uglier side of personal pride.

May God bless all of us.

[mizzdy]

Greetings to all of you who came before me over the last 9 pages. Very interesting discussion.

My stance on this issue is not popular to say the least. What the argument boils down to is the offense of the cross. There is an Old Covenant which dealt with covering sin with the blood of bulls and goats. It was replaced with the New Covenant of taking away the sins of man through the blood of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God.

Gary

Gary,

The Bible is the best selling book to ever be written, but it´s message is not popular. The problem springs from this New Covenant idea. There is no ¨New¨ covenant of salvation. Abraham was saved by grace and so is anyone else. The, so called, Mosaic Law was the teacher to the Jew just as it is today to the Christian, that we, all, recognise our sins. The expression of the Covenant with man has changed but the truth of it has and will never change. Even Adam and his children of the first generation are saved, only, by grace.

I agree with you whole heartily that salvation has always been by grace through faith but it was God himself who said that he was going to make a new covenant. It isn't me you disagree with if you think there isn't a new covenant. They are both 'grace' covenants that require 'faith' for salvation. The details of each were slightly different.

Peace unto you in Christ our King,

Gary

Can you give me the scriptures for your position instead of just accusing me of disagreeing with God? This works best if we do not fight.

Oh, please let me!

New Covenant idea is from Jesus - "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. . ." (Lk 22:20)

1Co 11:23-25 - "For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you. . .he took the cup saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood.' "

Heb 8:8, 13 - " 'The time is coming, declares the Lord when I will make a new covenant'. . .By calling this covenant new, he has made the first one (Mosaic) obsolete."

The Word of God in Heb makes clear exactly what is meant by new covenant, that is is not a continuation of the old in the form of a "newer" covenant, but that the new covenant negates the Mosaic covenant, making it obsolete.

I know that you are to be respected because f your position as mod here and by now you shoulod have learned that I seek to cause others to study and to not be Pew Whales skirting the edge of Hell. What you just signaled with this is not only rude it is very detremental to the cause o9f Christ. With the ¨oh, let me,¨ Satan´s pride just zoomed!

Who are you directing this too Bill? The mods are in the two shades of purple, I don't see any mod in your post here.

shalom,

Mizz

[coheir]

I found this and it seems to convey the peoper understanding.

What is the relationship of Gentile Christians to the laws of the Torah?

Messiah’s Holy Community of Jews and Gentiles (the Church), while having much in common with Israel, is not identical to Israel. The New Covenant is not the same as the Old Covenant. Jews who enter the New Covenant remain Jews, and Gentiles who enter the New Covenant remain Gentiles. Gentile Believers are not the same as the Gentile foreigners who lived in the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant. Gentile Christians have an elevated status compared to the aliens who lived in the nation of Israel under the Old Covenant. They are fully co-heirs of the Kingdom with the Jewish saints. Being grafted into Israel doesn't mean that Gentile Believers become Israel or are required to live the same way as the Jewish people. Jews and Gentiles are one because of our one God and Father of all: “one Lord, one faith and one Baptism.” We share equally in the Spirit of God, who lives in all of us, and have the same hope of living forever in the New Jerusalem. Being one doesn’t negate the differences in roles and calling and lifestyle between Jews and Gentiles.

Keep in mind that most of the laws of the Torah were directed specifically to the Jewish people and not to the other nations. The laws formed Israel’s constitution. The laws were meant to keep Israel distinct from the other nations. So what relationship does the Gentile Christian have to the 613 laws of the Torah? The book of Acts records that Messiah's Emissaries (the Apostles) and the Elders of Messiah's Holy Community met to decide this very issue. In the Messianic Jewish community we commonly refer to this meeting, recorded in Acts 15, as “the First Jerusalem Council.” According to the binding, Holy Spirit-inspired decision issued by the Emissaries and Elders, apart from saving faith in Messiah Yeshua, only four essential practices are necessary for Gentile Christians: abstaining from food dirtied by idolatry, from sexual immorality, from eating blood and from the meat of animals that have been strangled (see Acts 15, especially verses 19-20, 28-29). In addition to these Four Essentials, obedience to the Moral Law (for example, not stealing, not murdering, not committing adultery and not bearing false witness) is required. The Creator has written these moral laws on everyone's heart (see Romans 2:14-15).

Apart from these Four Essential Practices and the Moral Law, everything else - including the Sabbath, holidays and dietary laws - is to be regarded as non-essential, and comes under the area of Christian freedom and liberty. If someone wants to observe a Biblical holiday or custom, there is freedom, but no obligation, to do so. Gentile Christians have the freedom to celebrate the Sabbath and the Jewish holidays, or not observe them. If someone says, “Messiah is my Passover and I don't need to celebrate a Passover Seder” - that’s fine. If someone says, “Messiah is my Sabbath, and I'm resting in Him, and therefore I don't need to rest on the Sabbath” - that's OK. If someone wants to observe the first day of the week as a day of rest and worship, he has every right to do so. If someone says, “I want to observe the Sabbath and celebrate the Passover to help me better remember and appreciate Messiah, my Passover Lamb” - that's fine, too.

This does not make the Torah useless or irrelevant for Christians. The Torah is full of great wisdom. In the Torah are found the principles for salvation, atonement and God-ordained ways of worship. The initial prophecies and God-ordained qualifications for the Messiah are found here. True and accurate historical accounts - the history of the Creation, the Fall and the Flood; the origins and dispersing of the nations and their languages; the foundation and calling of Israel; the covenants made with Noah, Abraham and Moses - are all contained in this great Book. Basic laws of morality and justice, and principles for godly living - principles that can be applied to the life of every nation and every Christian - are found in the Torah. Every Christian should be well-versed in the Torah.

[Guest yod]

I know that you are to be respected because f your position as mod here and by now you shoulod have learned that I seek to cause others to study and to not be Pew Whales skirting the edge of Hell. What you just signaled with this is not only rude it is very detremental to the cause o9f Christ. With the ¨oh, let me,¨ Satan´s pride just zoomed!

first of all, she's not a mod

Secondly, she does that to everyone.

Thirdly, she doesn't (and isn't) listening so it's pointless to point that out.