To Bow or Not to Bow that is the Question

[saved34]

It is just a proper show of respect to those whom God has set up in authority. You are not bowing to the Queen as if she is a deity, it is just a show of respect in her culture. Even though I am an American, and do not have anything restraining me to do so, I would give her a bow out of respect. The President would garner a very respectful handshake, since bowing is not in our culture. I do not see any disrespect towards God in that. In fact he encourages us to show respect like this.

Rom 13:7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

Now if she suggests she is a deity, or that I am to bow to her as if she is the final authority, then she has placed herself in the position of My Father in Heaven. No ruler on earth deserves that kind of respect.

[Floatingaxe]

It is just a proper show of respect to those whom God has set up in authority. You are not bowing to the Queen as if she is a deity, it is just a show of respect in her culture. Even though I am an American, and do not have anything restraining me to do so, I would give her a bow out of respect. The President would garner a very respectful handshake, since bowing is not in our culture. I do not see any disrespect towards God in that. In fact he encourages us to show respect like this.

Rom 13:7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

Now if she suggests she is a deity, or that I am to bow to her as if she is the final authority, then she has placed herself in the position of My Father in Heaven. No ruler on earth deserves that kind of respect.

Exactly!

[Bold Believer]

Ok I was watching the movie yesterday King Ralph with John Goodman and it brought up the question...

First if one has never saw the movie John played the part of an American man that was in the lineage of inheriting the throne as the King of England.

There was a lot of bowing to him and a lot of the phrase " your Majesty"..

When I think of Majesty I don't think of men or women here down on Earth..

I think of Jesus Christ as Majesty.

Now in some countries it may be a sign as a greeting but in countries like America if you were to meet the president you could just "Hello".

In the Catholic faith if you were to meet the Pope you bow and may kiss his hand.

So now the question is that in any of these situations do you think that any of these can be construed as more then just a greeting and maybe placing someone higher then Jesus Christ?

In the 10 Commandments number 2 reads as follows...

2. You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

There is the bow of respect and the bow of worship. There's a difference.

[taylor30]

I might use the proper title, but I will biweekly to NO ONE except Jesus.

What? What do you mean 'biweekly'?

OOPS. My spell checker is messing with me. I don't usually read my posts before I post because I assume what I write is what will show up. What I meant to say instead of biweekly is "bow". Don't know how I messed that up so bad.

[taylor30]

Ok I was watching the movie yesterday King Ralph with John Goodman and it brought up the question...

First if one has never saw the movie John played the part of an American man that was in the lineage of inheriting the throne as the King of England.

There was a lot of bowing to him and a lot of the phrase " your Majesty"..

When I think of Majesty I don't think of men or women here down on Earth..

I think of Jesus Christ as Majesty.

Now in some countries it may be a sign as a greeting but in countries like America if you were to meet the president you could just "Hello".

In the Catholic faith if you were to meet the Pope you bow and may kiss his hand.

So now the question is that in any of these situations do you think that any of these can be construed as more then just a greeting and maybe placing someone higher then Jesus Christ?

In the 10 Commandments number 2 reads as follows...

2. You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

There is the bow of respect and the bow of worship. There's a difference.

Guess that depends on how you look at it. Personally I see a bow as FAR MORE than respect. Bow for me is something worship like and I will not bow to any man. It would violate my conscience to do so.

[xero]

Lets take a look at the oft misquote "render unto caeser."

Mark 12:13 "And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words. 14And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for THOU REGARDEST NOT THE PERSON OF MEN, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? 15Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. 16And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's. 17And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him."

Notice the situation. The Pharisees are trying to find a reason to kill Jesus by getting him to openly rebel against caeser by coercion tempting Him to say dont pay tribute (taxes), do you think Jesus was endorsing caeser or was He proving His point to the Pharisees that they cant bind Him by the law?, to render to God the things (or tribute as the context implies) that are Gods was the point of this message. You cant serve God and money. Point noted, moving on to "royalty". God was none to pleased about Israel conspiring to have a king like the gentiles as we see here in Samuel.

1 Samuel 8:4 "Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, 5And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. 6But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. 7And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them."

I suggest further reading of Samuel 8 but this verse clarifies what God thinks of Israels desire for a king. God says they have rejected me. What more need I say?

[Bold Believer]

Tribute and taxes are NOT the same. Taxes are legitimate monies collected to pay for infrastructure of a nation on behalf of the people. Tribute is what a conquered people pays to its conqueror for the privelege of remaining alive. Tribute is exacted one way or another from the conquered: Give it or pay the consequences (usually death or hostages).

[udx]

Bowing is just a sign of respect. Asian cultures do it a lot in the past (much of the respectful practices was lost with time). In the past (15+ years ago), students use to bow to teachers as they enter the room. Japanese also bow a lot, like from employees to their superior or someone in higher office.

I have learn that Americans also used (like back when US was still 13 states) to greet one another by bowing or curtsy especially by kids to adults.

[MorningGlory]

I might use the proper title, but I will biweekly to NO ONE except Jesus.

What? What do you mean 'biweekly'?

OOPS. My spell checker is messing with me. I don't usually read my posts before I post because I assume what I write is what will show up. What I meant to say instead of biweekly is "bow". Don't know how I messed that up so bad.

That's funny! My spell check is forever telling me I'm spelling my name wrong....!

[Holy Joe]

Obedience is better than sacrifice. If the demand is that I submit and bow and in obedience do so -- not because of demand but because of reverence – then my mind is at peace. But if I bow against my will then it becomes a sacrifice that I do so and my mind is in turmoil. I submit myself as a servant and bow to all, but my inheritance is I own everything. Jesus submitted to authority not because he had to but because he was servant to all.

Demanded is we are to walk in His salvation, It is easy to say I follow the Christ yet quite the other to actually do it. It isn’t an easy thing to give up the right to ourselves and in obedience bow to Him and put on the Christ for ourselves, we want to do it our way and skip the part where we submit and actually walk as He walks and do it His way. His way is not our way, His way is the way of Jesus Christ and to bow to that and put on the Christ as Jesus had the Christ goes against everything we have been taught by man.

I bow not in rebellion to authority but in reverence. This may goad some but -- If the Pope were to stand before me I would bow, or kiss his hand, then try and lead the man to the Christ as Jesus had the Christ, Anointed of God. It is a matter of perspective how we view things.

Joe