To Bow or Not to Bow that is the Question

[just_abc]

If I am not mistaken I think there is bowing that is worship or has religious meaning ..and there is bowing that might be simply respect / cultural greeting and not meant or viewed as religious.

If a particular bowing is simply respect / cultural and if it has no religious connotations -- what that bowing or non-bowing means in a particular culture or point of time in history..might be different from the meaning in another culture or at another point of time in history. So whether bowing is right or wrong..or whether not-bowing is right or wrong..might depend on the culture / situation / etc and what is meant or perceived by such actions or non-actions.

Also it might be a good idea to also consider how one's actions or non-actions might be perceived by others.. especially those from different cultures / countries.. or when visiting other cultures or countries.

Just because bowing or not-bowing means something in one's own culture / country does not automatically mean it has the exact same meaning in another culture / country.

Just a thought.

Thanks.

Edited April 15, 2012 by just_abc

[Waiting2BwithHim]

If I am not mistaken I think there is bowing that is worship or has religious meaning ..and there is bowing that might be simply respect / cultural greeting and not meant or viewed as religious.

If a particular bowing is simply respect / cultural and if it has no religious connotations -- what that bowing or non-bowing means in a particular culture or point of time in history..might be different from the meaning in another culture or at another point of time in history. So whether bowing is right or wrong..or whether not-bowing is right or wrong..might depend on the culture / situation / etc and what is meant or perceived by such actions or non-actions.

Also it might be a good idea to also consider how one's actions or non-actions might be perceived by others.. especially those from different cultures / countries.. or when visiting other cultures or countries.

Just because bowing or not-bowing means something in one's own culture / country does not automatically mean it has the exact same meaning in another culture / country.

Just a thought.

Thanks.

Thank you for the thought but IMO bowing is bowing for whatever the reason that you are doing it and no matter to whom you are doing it too.

Why can't a simple handshake or a simple "Hello it's nice to meet you" be sufficient enough to get or show respect to someone?

If you weren't showing respect you would probably not shake the person's hand or give them an insincere look.

[udx]

If I am not mistaken I think there is bowing that is worship or has religious meaning ..and there is bowing that might be simply respect / cultural greeting and not meant or viewed as religious.

If a particular bowing is simply respect / cultural and if it has no religious connotations -- what that bowing or non-bowing means in a particular culture or point of time in history..might be different from the meaning in another culture or at another point of time in history. So whether bowing is right or wrong..or whether not-bowing is right or wrong..might depend on the culture / situation / etc and what is meant or perceived by such actions or non-actions.

Also it might be a good idea to also consider how one's actions or non-actions might be perceived by others.. especially those from different cultures / countries.. or when visiting other cultures or countries.

Just because bowing or not-bowing means something in one's own culture / country does not automatically mean it has the exact same meaning in another culture / country.

Just a thought.

Thanks.

Thank you for the thought but IMO bowing is bowing for whatever the reason that you are doing it and no matter to whom you are doing it too.

Why can't a simple handshake or a simple "Hello it's nice to meet you" be sufficient enough to get or show respect to someone?

If you weren't showing respect you would probably not shake the person's hand or give them an insincere look.

Handshake is more of a western way to greet one another.

Some cultures do not do the handshake because they do not do physical contact as readily (the Japanese for example), bowing as show of respect in a physical but contact free way is more appropriate in their culture. Some culture greet one another by kissing or hugging.

[MorningGlory]

It just goes to show you that people do not understand a monarchy.

You're right, Axe, we don't. But....what are the chances any of us will ever meet Queen Elizabeth or any of the other crowned heads of Europe? I don't consider any of those M.E. despots rulers so I don't include them. There are some legitimate kings in Africa too although I can't think of their names. Anyway, it's an American thing; we are still defiant 236 years after declaring ourselves independent of the British monarchy.

Is there a reason to thumb one's nose at propriety, though?

I don't look at it that way though.....it's not part of our culture. I really don't have respect for any monarch other than Queen Elizabeth. Again, it's cultural; being American I relate to Britain because that's where my ancestors came from. I really don't know what I would do if I was presented to the Queen......maybe I would make a royal fool of myself but I would still have the greatest respect for her.

[nChrist]

It just goes to show you that people do not understand a monarchy.

You're right, Axe, we don't. But....what are the chances any of us will ever meet Queen Elizabeth or any of the other crowned heads of Europe? I don't consider any of those M.E. despots rulers so I don't include them. There are some legitimate kings in Africa too although I can't think of their names. Anyway, it's an American thing; we are still defiant 236 years after declaring ourselves independent of the British monarchy.

Is there a reason to thumb one's nose at propriety, though?

YES, I don't view it as proper and won't do it. If you want to bow and whatever, that's your business. I won't, and that's my business. If they bow to me first or kiss my hand, I would probably tell them to reserve such respect and dignity to God. May God get all of the Glory.

[~candice~]

It just goes to show you that people do not understand a monarchy.

You're right, Axe, we don't. But....what are the chances any of us will ever meet Queen Elizabeth or any of the other crowned heads of Europe? I don't consider any of those M.E. despots rulers so I don't include them. There are some legitimate kings in Africa too although I can't think of their names. Anyway, it's an American thing; we are still defiant 236 years after declaring ourselves independent of the British monarchy.

Is there a reason to thumb one's nose at propriety, though?

YES, I don't view it as proper and won't do it. If you want to bow and whatever, that's your business. I won't, and that's my business. If they bow to me first or kiss my hand, I would probably tell them to reserve such respect and dignity to God. May God get all of the Glory.

I don't consider political power without first being elected by the people to be properity.

I'm fairly die hard on this issue.

I can only hope we become a republic before I die.

[just_abc]

Why can't a simple handshake or a simple "Hello it's nice to meet you" be sufficient enough to get or show respect to someone?

Because handshakes are also cultural. For many cultures in the world.. western type handshakes were/are not the traditional way of greeting someone.. but often was a foreign concept that was introduced / embraced in many places.

Another example of something cultural might be the way people eat food. In some cultures the traditional way of eating food often involves using one's fingers to eat the food....in other cultures people use chopsticks....in other cultures people use western-style utensils etc. None of these ways of eating food is wrong simply because they are different than the other cultures. They are simply different cultural ways of eating food.

Greetings are also often cultural. The way people greet each other. What is considered acceptable and not acceptable. What is considered rude or polite etc. This too also often depends on the culture.

Sometimes though when there are cultural differences between cultures - what means one thing in one culture..might sometimes have a very different meaning in a different culture. Sometimes something which is considered the norm or very acceptable in one culture..might be considered rude or unacceptable in another culture. Or vice versa.

This is a reason why I think that it is often a good idea to consider meanings / perceptions etc not only in one's own culture but also the culture that one is interacting with or the culture of the country that one is visiting. Because sometimes the meaning of an action / inaction / words / etc.. or how it would likely be perceived ..might be very different in another culture compared to one's own.

Just my personal opinion thats all. Thanks.

Edited April 16, 2012 by just_abc

[Guest]

... Some cultures do not do the handshake because they do not do physical contact as readily (the Japanese for example), bowing as show of respect in a physical but contact free way is more appropriate in their culture....

Never Give Your Hand To A Judo Man Unless You Would Like A Short Flight Without Parachute Or Wings....

[Cajunluvie]

Interesting.

My ancestors were not Anglo-Saxons nor descendants of the original 13 colonies. Like I said before, most were Cajuns with exception of my maternal grandmother's side of family (German-French). Though, I LOVE Revolutionary War history- I would say Ben Franklin most likely did behave according to propriety as much as he could when he was in Europe for his delegation on behalf of the Colonies. I read a biography on him that mentioned a visit with King George III. John Adams, however, was a solid American colonist through and through. He probably would agree with the sentiment in this thread of not bowing to the monarchy. Otherwise, I do believe in that time and age, men did doff their hats or did neck bows and women did curtsies out of a sense of proper respect.

When I was with my ex, I observed African culture up close. I picked up on that if I inclined my head slightly that they recognized I was being "respectful" in their presence without acting like a doormat. THey do bow to each other (the males) out of respect/ shake hands. Especially to the older members of the family or close acquaintances. I notice body language fairly quickly as I observe people around me and how they react. Interesting to see, IMO. Different cultures behave in certain ways.

With that said, would I bow to the Queen, perhaps out of propriety. I know my heart is in the right place. I would not make a spectacle of myself unless I was demanded to worship the person as a "god" like the early Christians were expected to do in the Roman Empire. I would have flatly declined on that reason.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Cajunluvie

[xero]

Cultures and traditions have nothing to do with this because its not about how you interpret the action its how God interprets it. There is no vote on any topic for anyone ever. God is Monarch or the Most High One and His Word is law.

Exodus 20:2 "I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:5THOU SHALT NOT BOW DOWN THYSELF TO THEM, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

Yes the context is graven images but you have to keep in mind that from Pharaoh on down to Caeser the rulers were considered the embodiement of the "god" (typically the sun god) of that nation or whatever god they claimed being the son of. Bowing to a ruler is no different than bowing to a graven image. Act like Im nitpicking but consider that if you were about to walk into a ditch and I said "hey watch it theres a ditch in front of you!" you wouldnt question the urgency of the message nor think I was being proud of my insight.