Revelation

[coheir]

There are enough threads about the rapture. AS wants this to be about Revelation. Please honor this.

did not quote any verses, so I am not trying to turn this into anything.

[OneLight]

There are enough threads about the rapture. AS wants this to be about Revelation. Please honor this.

did not quote any verses, so I am not trying to turn this into anything.

Stick around. You will see how statements like the one you made hijack many threads.

[OneLight]

Did Jesus reveal this knowledge to John? Is it possible that Revelation was written in the time prior to or immediately following Jesus' crucifixion?

Jesus appeared to him, and Angels also helped in writing revelation. So after Jesus was crucified because on down Jesus said I am the first and last, then said I was a dead, and now alive.

Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Will Jesus come after the dead in Christ rise? Perhaps even after all dead are risen prior to their judgement? The passage there says that Every Eye will see Him. EVEN THOSE WHO PIERCED HIM..... is scripture referring to the literal soldier and figures that carried out Jesus' sentence? Or perhaps more from the spiritual stand point? That being the ones who denied Him, that being His own people, the Jews? Posted Image

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

If you believe in Pre-Trib Rapture, the dead in Christ are raised when Jesus hauls the church out of here. Danial said at that time they people will be delivered that are found in the book.

If you believe in Post trib, then right after the seventh angelic trumpet blast Jesus comes, and the sixth seal is released. It's judgement time as he described that event in Matthew also. So, you hang out until then.

These question jump us right into the Rapture debate again..................

Be blessed.

It doesn't have to.

1. Did Jesus reveal this knowledge to John?
   • Yes, that is shown in verses 9-11:
     • I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

[*]Is it possible that Revelation was written in the time prior to or immediately following Jesus' crucifixion?

• No. Historians place the book of Revelation around 90 AD, while John was on the Isle of Patmos, where he was sentenced to live due to his faith in Christ.
  
  

[AnotherSinner]

Did Jesus reveal this knowledge to John? Is it possible that Revelation was written in the time prior to or immediately following Jesus' crucifixion?

Jesus appeared to him, and Angels also helped in writing revelation. So after Jesus was crucified because on down Jesus said I am the first and last, then said I was a dead, and now alive.

Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Will Jesus come after the dead in Christ rise? Perhaps even after all dead are risen prior to their judgement? The passage there says that Every Eye will see Him. EVEN THOSE WHO PIERCED HIM..... is scripture referring to the literal soldier and figures that carried out Jesus' sentence? Or perhaps more from the spiritual stand point? That being the ones who denied Him, that being His own people, the Jews? Posted Image

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

If you believe in Pre-Trib Rapture, the dead in Christ are raised when Jesus hauls the church out of here. Danial said at that time they people will be delivered that are found in the book.

If you believe in Post trib, then right after the seventh angelic trumpet blast Jesus comes, and the sixth seal is released. It's judgement time as he described that event in Matthew also. So, you hang out until then.

These question jump us right into the Rapture debate again..................

Be blessed.

Thanks for the insight. Will continue chapter one soon. Please anyone reading this. Let us not turn this into a rapture debate...just keep it simple and to scripture discussed. Thank you.

[coheir]

....I apologize. Been rather eager about reading Revelation as better understanding is something sought. Will go slowly so as to allow others to get involved if they are wanting to do so.

Will start with some of Chapter 1 this evening. Going to divide it into two parts for now as the hour is gradually growing late and sadly, though the weather is needed...got some chances of heavy rain coming in this direction.

Revelation 1:1-3 (NIV)

Prologue

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Did Jesus reveal this knowledge to John? Is it possible that Revelation was written in the time prior to or immediately following Jesus' crucifixion?

Revelation 1:4-8 (NIV)

Greetings and Doxology

⁴ John,

To the seven churches in the province of Asia:

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, ⁵ and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, ⁶ and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father —to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

⁷ “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”

and “every eye will see him,

even those who pierced him”;

and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”

So shall it be! Amen.

⁸ “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Who are the seven spirits? Are these the same that shall blow the trumpets or bring upon the judgments to the earth in the last days?

Will Jesus come after the dead in Christ rise? Perhaps even after all dead are risen prior to their judgement? The passage there says that Every Eye will see Him. EVEN THOSE WHO PIERCED HIM..... is scripture referring to the literal soldier and figures that carried out Jesus' sentence? Or perhaps more from the spiritual stand point? That being the ones who denied Him, that being His own people, the Jews?

Will post more of Chapter 1 of Revelation later. Would just like to touch base a little.

Just Another Sinner Seeking The Way

Dani

Q 1 I believe Jesus did reveal this to JohnRev 1:12-13

Q2 I believe God, Jesus, and Holy spirit are one spirit. Not sure who the other six are. I also think Angels will blow the trumps carry out judgements not the other six spirits, ps these other six spirits mus be above angels.

[gdemoss]

snip

I'd love to discuss this book but don't believe that a truly fruitful discussion of it can be had publicly. The problem with discussing the end times events is that there are many delusions that have been given unto those who have not received a love of the truth and these people do not take kindly to one who comes to them to discuss that which is contrary to their position. Therefore, I save these discussions to have them with individuals who have received a love of the truth and therefore also received eyes opened to the truth of these prophecies. When you get to the end of this book you will find an intriguing statement. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesy. May the Lord give you the spirit of wisdom and understanding in the knowledge of him as you seek to obey every word he has said.

Believeinhim: Props for trying to be delicate in addressing the direct question about the return of Christ that cannot be talked about without addressing the rapture/catching up. If we ever wished to have a conversation on such topics in a mixed crowd, this is the only way it could possibly work without the unnecessary strife/debate. Thanks for trying.

Gary

[jasoncran]

With much of the End Times being a mystery....

Not to mention so much different interpretation in regards of the Last Days, would anyone be interested in studying Revelation with me? Chapter by Chapter?

well if your honest and wanting to know this probably will be a lifetime search as when you think that you have it all figured out. you dont. all i will say is dont take the verses out of context as is common today. just read what it says and then look to what the references events earlier say and how that happened and the languaged used and go from there

ie for it is says in exodus. "for i am come down to see.." and jesus is telling annais ye shall see me coming in the clouds. the means the judgements. god judged egypt and isreal with signs and plagues and signs and wonders and the roman army.

Seeking God in itself is a life long search. For no matter how much we read and come to know of Him, there is always more. Do not mind spending a lifetime searching. After all....seek and ye shall find. Right?

yes but when you start into these eschatology debates you will see who has not studied much and thinks that they have it all figured out. when i think i have it all packed i get stumped by someone or realise whoops im wrong.

[AnotherSinner]

With much of the End Times being a mystery....

Not to mention so much different interpretation in regards of the Last Days, would anyone be interested in studying Revelation with me? Chapter by Chapter?

well if your honest and wanting to know this probably will be a lifetime search as when you think that you have it all figured out. you dont. all i will say is dont take the verses out of context as is common today. just read what it says and then look to what the references events earlier say and how that happened and the languaged used and go from there

ie for it is says in exodus. "for i am come down to see.." and jesus is telling annais ye shall see me coming in the clouds. the means the judgements. god judged egypt and isreal with signs and plagues and signs and wonders and the roman army.

Seeking God in itself is a life long search. For no matter how much we read and come to know of Him, there is always more. Do not mind spending a lifetime searching. After all....seek and ye shall find. Right?

yes but when you start into these eschatology debates you will see who has not studied much and thinks that they have it all figured out. when i think i have it all packed i get stumped by someone or realise whoops im wrong.

See it already. There have been times too, I have been in error. It is all part of growing. Much as we do when we take our first steps, we stumble...fall...then try again. Thankfully God is patient and will guide us in our understanding. Just may take a while with some of us, especially me....as sometimes it takes me a while to grasp things.

[AnotherSinner]

Chapter 1: Continued....

Revelation 1:9-11 (NIV)

John’s Vision of Christ

⁹ I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.¹⁰ On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, ¹¹ which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna,Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”

Think it was OneLight who responded in regards of a question about the first part of Revelation chapter 1 that I asked about the time in which John wrote it. Now seeing a verse that supports that.

^{Revelation 1:12-16 (NIV) 12} I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, ¹³ and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. ¹⁴ The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. ¹⁵ His feet were like bronze glowingin a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. ¹⁶ In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sunshining in all its brilliance. ¹⁷ When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said:“Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. ¹⁸ I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Some things that stuck out in that passage was the reference to the manner in which this divine entity seemed to appear: "And among the lamp stands was someone like A SON OF MAN." There was also this. "The he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the first and the last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive forever and ever. And I hold the keys of death and Hades."

The only other reference....that I have known in regards of Son of Man, is Jesus. Are there other references to Son of Man that perhaps are not associated with Jesus Christ? Could this entity be none other than Jesus as Jesus triumphed over sin and Death on the cross? If so...is this perhaps a glimpse of what God may look like?

Revelation 1:19-20 (NIV)

¹⁹ “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. ²⁰ The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

Seven churches have angels! Wow? Can these too apply to our day and the end times to come?

My apologies for so many questions. Going to allow this to sit a day or two before I continue so that way what has been read can be truly taken in. Still....sitting here in amazement myself. Really...just awed!

Just Another Sinner Seeking The Way

Dani

[deut31:12]

With much of the End Times being a mystery....

Not to mention so much different interpretation in regards of the Last Days, would anyone be interested in studying Revelation with me? Chapter by Chapter?

The greatest book that has helped me understand the book of Revelation is this one - "Opening the Book of the Seven Seals". It can be found here - Amazon

I have been studying the book and it is written like each chapter was a sermon. I like how the author kept reiterating the the book of Revelation was the histroy of the church past, present, and future. This book was written over 100 years ago.