Islam in America

[jasoncran]

and it doesnt look good for women in the those countries. which is why for the life i cant understand how the left embraces islam so readily.

[jasoncran]

oh hamburgers,

I have been to an islamic nation . i hid the fact that im a jew for fear of life. only one i know wouldnt harm me because i know him.he risked his life with us and that says alot.he has remained consistent for peace. islam has been doing in general what they have been told do to.

God used isreal to judge the canannites and YHWH told isreal not to mess with edom,moab,or the ammonites. for they are your cousins and i have promised them their land. later he did judge them for hating his nation. context is everything. please read the torah and then at least either disagree with that or say that well i was wrong. i can respect a disagreement that is from intellectual honesty, but I cant stand dishonest arguing or arguments.

[Matthitjah]

Bump

I'm not going to do that in this thread because it only further moves things off track, and frankly I think the intention to hear my testimony in this context is with the intent to judge/prove myself somehow, something I don't feel like I need to do. But if search my post history I think I did something similar to testimony when I was around a few years ago.

Nope, just interested in why you call yourself a seeker.

I do believe that you do debate without Spiritual insight or understanding though.

I also believe that if you're as comfortable with what you say you believe then it shouldn't be bothersome to indicate what that belief is.

[other one]

Thanks, I did take a look at some of those. If you accept the initial premise that the MB speaks for the majority of US Muslims & has a coordinated plan to systematically take the country down ala a widespread conspiracy it may convince some people. I did not see much in the way of proof for much of the assertions in the opening link though, most of it is speculation (I think he says to "listen" in order to get the proof..?) and opinion that attempts to come off as a hard case. The fundamental problem however is when he tries to connect the MB to the Islam faith itself & tie it direction to the average Muslim citizens. In my opinion, to assume that millions of citizens can be in a coordinated effort like what is being described without communication or clear direction is a dangerous paranoid fantasy.

We spent 17 hours in that converence covering all the documentation burger..... most of what I have is in video's that are not on the internet and I have no way of posting them here. We have had company for the past three days and I've been really sick. I'll put something together if I can pull them out of the video's.

The plan was in the trial that one of the things I posted mentioned. You might google

http://www.breitbart.com/Columnists/John-Guandolo

Try here, my sister just drove in.... gotta go.

[other one]

Thanks, I did take a look at some of those. If you accept the initial premise that the MB speaks for the majority of US Muslims & has a coordinated plan to systematically take the country down ala a widespread conspiracy it may convince some people. I did not see much in the way of proof for much of the assertions in the opening link though, most of it is speculation (I think he says to "listen" in order to get the proof..?) and opinion that attempts to come off as a hard case. The fundamental problem however is when he tries to connect the MB to the Islam faith itself & tie it direction to the average Muslim citizens. In my opinion, to assume that millions of citizens can be in a coordinated effort like what is being described without communication or clear direction is a dangerous paranoid fantasy.

We spent 17 hours in that converence covering all the documentation burger..... most of what I have is in video's that are not on the internet and I have no way of posting them here. We have had company for the past three days and I've been really sick. I'll put something together if I can pull them out of the video's.

The plan was in the trial that one of the things I posted mentioned. You might google

http://www.breitbart...s/John-Guandolo

Try here, my sister just drove in.... gotta go.

This is part two of a ten part series that shows where this information comes from. You might want to listen to the whole thing. It pretty much covers a $500 program that friends of mine attended in Dallas about three years ago.

http://muslimbrotherhoodinamerica.com/part-2-the-brotherhoods-civilization-jihad-in-america/

[Oh Hamburgers!]

This takes place in Britain, but I would like for you to comment on

Sorry video appears to be removed by user, I can't access it.

I have to wonder how much you know about the Muslim religion, the Qur'an, and what they think of the US? Have you any idea what is happening in the European nations like England and France? Do you understand that in the Qur'an there is a political blueprint on how to run a country?

You will find no such instructions in the bible. Yet, you are right that most who created the Constitution were Christians. Yet, you say that it is up to us to prove that Islam is wrong and should be abolished in the US. Have you thought this through? In order to prove it is wrong for us would mean that we would have to allow them to take over first, and then say to everyone, "See, we told you!". It would then be too late. It is also obvious that you don't take scripture seriously either for we are told to not bow down to any other god beside God.

I highly suggest that you take the time to research the subject before you suggest actions to take. If you want first hand proof, visit a Muslim country, or a country where Sharia Law is taking over.

I've both studied it briefly & read parts. I've also lived in this country and have seen the pervasiveness of Christian culture and the general lack of threat from a very small % of the population. The ones that I know personally are just normal people who happen to believe in a different god, and who were just as mad as everyone else when the towers got hit, feeling that their religion had been hijacked.

I say we need to prove that there is a clear substantial threat from Islam itself, and a just cause before we talk about making an entire religion against the law. Otherwise we're violating people's rights out of fear and fear generally leads to some pretty poor decisions. And when I say just cause I mean it would need to be shown that simply being a Muslim is a threat to the country.

oh hamburgers,

I have been to an islamic nation . i hid the fact that im a jew for fear of life. only one i know wouldnt harm me because i know him.he risked his life with us and that says alot.he has remained consistent for peace. islam has been doing in general what they have been told do to.

God used isreal to judge the canannites and YHWH told isreal not to mess with edom,moab,or the ammonites. for they are your cousins and i have promised them their land. later he did judge them for hating his nation. context is everything. please read the torah and then at least either disagree with that or say that well i was wrong. i can respect a disagreement that is from intellectual honesty, but I cant stand dishonest arguing or arguments.

I'm sorry but I'm not quite sure what you are asking me to agree/disagree with after reading the Torah. That's also quite a task you're asking me to do, so I can't guarantee I'll get around to it.. this year

That is why I would like to pass a Constitutional Amendment stating that our religious freedoms don't cover Islam. Yes, it would effect some pagans that don't plan on harming anyone. So what? Their false relgion would become illegal. I don't care if people in other countries hate us. I am not to fond of those people either, and I doubt they will lose any sleep over my saying so?

Well, the "so what" part is the fact that it would be unjust to persecute the many just to capture the few who are causing the damage. To quote an America founder:

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

"that it is better [one hundred] guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer."

Persecuting all Muslims for the sake of the few is simply against what this country is all about.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Oh Hamburgers!

[Oh Hamburgers!]

And that quote is supposed to prove outlawing Islam is not what this country is about? I don't see it that way. F.D.R. put Japanese Americans in internment camps during WW2 out of fear. Obama is still holding people prisoner that haven't been tried out of fear. Right or wrong, these things have happened in America, so to take two quotes and claim that is proof that outlawing Islam is not what this nation is about is absurd. I don't personally believe the founding Fathers expected freedom of religion to extend to cults like Islam. I believe their intent was to protect differen't Christian religions from persecution, so if I am going strictly by what I believe the founders intended, I don't think religious freedom extends to Islam now. Even so, words have meaning, so it will still require a Constitutional Amendment to outlaw the Muslim "religion of peace," which I support doing.

Well the internment of Japanese Americans was apologized for by the government, and that was an emergency situation. Same with the prisons being part of an emergency situation that hasn't been resolved (and really it was a problem Obama inherited from Bush). Both were wrong and I agree they were motivated by fear, but I don't see why that makes outlawing Islam any better since clearly these things were bad things and outlawing an entire religion would be another bad thing.

Emergency powers were used for the japanese internment etc, but what you are suggesting is a change in the constitution which is even worse in my opinion. Islam is recognized as a world religion, not a cult, even if you feel otherwise.

[other one]

And that quote is supposed to prove outlawing Islam is not what this country is about? I don't see it that way. F.D.R. put Japanese Americans in internment camps during WW2 out of fear. Obama is still holding people prisoner that haven't been tried out of fear. Right or wrong, these things have happened in America, so to take two quotes and claim that is proof that outlawing Islam is not what this nation is about is absurd. I don't personally believe the founding Fathers expected freedom of religion to extend to cults like Islam. I believe their intent was to protect differen't Christian religions from persecution, so if I am going strictly by what I believe the founders intended, I don't think religious freedom extends to Islam now. Even so, words have meaning, so it will still require a Constitutional Amendment to outlaw the Muslim "religion of peace," which I support doing.

Well the internment of Japanese Americans was apologized for by the government, and that was an emergency situation. Same with the prisons being part of an emergency situation that hasn't been resolved (and really it was a problem Obama inherited from Bush). Both were wrong and I agree they were motivated by fear, but I don't see why that makes outlawing Islam any better since clearly these things were bad things and outlawing an entire religion would be another bad thing.

Emergency powers were used for the japanese internment etc, but what you are suggesting is a change in the constitution which is even worse in my opinion. Islam is recognized as a world religion, not a cult, even if you feel otherwise.

Islam does not call itself a religion, They call themselves a culture...... and we do not have a constitutional protestion for another culture to replace our own. It would be no different than setting up a Jewish Theocracy in the USA, and that certainly would not be covered by our freedom of religion ammendment.

[OneLight]

I have to wonder how much you know about the Muslim religion, the Qur'an, and what they think of the US? Have you any idea what is happening in the European nations like England and France? Do you understand that in the Qur'an there is a political blueprint on how to run a country?

You will find no such instructions in the bible. Yet, you are right that most who created the Constitution were Christians. Yet, you say that it is up to us to prove that Islam is wrong and should be abolished in the US. Have you thought this through? In order to prove it is wrong for us would mean that we would have to allow them to take over first, and then say to everyone, "See, we told you!". It would then be too late. It is also obvious that you don't take scripture seriously either for we are told to not bow down to any other god beside God.

I highly suggest that you take the time to research the subject before you suggest actions to take. If you want first hand proof, visit a Muslim country, or a country where Sharia Law is taking over.

I've both studied it briefly & read parts. I've also lived in this country and have seen the pervasiveness of Christian culture and the general lack of threat from a very small % of the population. The ones that I know personally are just normal people who happen to believe in a different god, and who were just as mad as everyone else when the towers got hit, feeling that their religion had been hijacked.

I say we need to prove that there is a clear substantial threat from Islam itself, and a just cause before we talk about making an entire religion against the law. Otherwise we're violating people's rights out of fear and fear generally leads to some pretty poor decisions. And when I say just cause I mean it would need to be shown that simply being a Muslim is a threat to the country.

I guess you must of missed the part about the Sharia Law being the law they need to live by. This would come first to them, then the laws of the nation they live in second. Not trying to be harsh, but it seems you have a blind eye to their false religion. Do I hate them? No. Do I want them to come here and set up another system of law? No. Do I like and accept the fact that their holy book calls for world domination? No.

[jasoncran]

islam in general cant be without sharia law.

read the torah? seriously thats the first five book of the bible. how hard is that? im not asking you to study ramban or rashi and rambam and their thoughts. just take your bible and start at genesis and end at deuteromony.