Revelation 20 literal millennium or figurative?

[JohnD]

Revelation 20 (NASB95)

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The problem most interpreters have with New Testament books is that it is Greek writings with Hebrew mind sets. The Hebrew mind set, some say the Middle Eastern mindset is to tell a story hitting the highlights first and then looping back to expound upon them and not necessarily in the order they were first mentioned.

There are "peg points" of "looping back" to like:

Revelation 12:7-10 (NASB95)

7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,

8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.

When did salvation come?

When Jesus was on the cross and said it is done / finished.

Heaven apparently did not sit silent. God's angels kicked out the fallen angels once that victory was achieved and the "deed to earth" was back in God's hands. I have no doubt in my mind that this war was more or less like a raid where the interlopers were thrown down in a rapid maneuver taking little to no time. Extrabiblical history records three days of darkness on the earth... and a day in particular when the sky was black as night at midday.

So bearing this in mind, reread Revelation 20 with less presumptuous eyes and open (to the Holy Spirit) minds.

[JohnD]

Keep this thread please.

[He giveth more grace]

Salvation is just a word that means Healed, Physically, morally, put in safety, delivered. It had more of a physical understanding in the Greek and best word to describe the full complete work of the cross for those on Earth. It does not mean born again, or new life. The words Eternal life were used to describe the promise.

Salvation came when Jesus came, as that is when the Kingdom operation came.

1,000 years is a 1,000 years.

Jesus Is Lord.

Definition of

sal·va·tion

.

1. the act of saving or protecting from harm, risk, loss, destruction, etc.

2. the state of being saved or protected from harm, risk, etc.

3. a source, cause, or means of being saved or protected from harm, risk, etc.

4. Theology . deliverance from the power and penalty of sin; redemption.

Good one, Danielzk, salvation often time means deliverance, too.

[rjp34652]

Salvation is just a word that means Healed, Physically, morally, put in safety, delivered. It had more of a physical understanding in the Greek and best word to describe the full complete work of the cross for those on Earth. It does not mean born again, or new life. The words Eternal life were used to describe the promise.

Salvation came when Jesus came, as that is when the Kingdom operation came.

1,000 years is a 1,000 years.

Jesus Is Lord.

A millenium is a millenium on the Gregorian calendar, which is a measurement created by humans for the purpose of tracking the passage of time (or forcasting it).

Spiritually speaking a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day. This is to say that eternity has no time measurement. The term 'one thousand years' has no literal meaning in spiritual terms. The allusion is the same as when Jesus' disciples asked the limits of divine forgiveness (seven times or seventy times seven). Is there a 491st sin or is this a question that begs the definition of infinity?

If we want to abandon all scripture as well as the Gregorian calendar, we can go to science for a definition of time. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, time is relational to speed. A thousand years, therefore, is relative to the passage of time on the surface of planet earth. Even in orbit, time passage isn't equal. The average GPS unit must use complex mathematical theorems to calculate the difference in time between tracking satellites and earth time.

Science, therefore, verifies the Biblical claim that in eternity, as in fact in the physical universe, time has no real meaning.

(Now all I have to do is convince my anti-virus software vendor that one of my licenses has, in fact, not expired...and I'll be all set.)

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[gdemoss]

That which is natural comes first followed by that which is spiritual. The first man Adam ruled and reigned 930 years here upon the earth but was earthly. The last Adam who was made a quickening spirit must also reign for a millennium. He will do just what the scripture clearly says he will do. He will descend just as he left. He will begin his reign from the mount of olives and with the rod of his mouth and his bride as his help meet he will bring every single creature into subjection unto himself and when the last enemy is defeated he will deliver up the reigns to his Father to rule over as God with his people. What a glorious day that will be.

Gary

[Bold Believer]

Revelation 20 (NASB95)

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The problem most interpreters have with New Testament books is that it is Greek writings with Hebrew mind sets. The Hebrew mind set, some say the Middle Eastern mindset is to tell a story hitting the highlights first and then looping back to expound upon them and not necessarily in the order they were first mentioned.

There are "peg points" of "looping back" to like:

Revelation 12:7-10 (NASB95)

7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,

8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.

When did salvation come?

When Jesus was on the cross and said it is done / finished.

Heaven apparently did not sit silent. God's angels kicked out the fallen angels once that victory was achieved and the "deed to earth" was back in God's hands. I have no doubt in my mind that this war was more or less like a raid where the interlopers were thrown down in a rapid maneuver taking little to no time. Extrabiblical history records three days of darkness on the earth... and a day in particular when the sky was black as night at midday.

So bearing this in mind, reread Revelation 20 with less presumptuous eyes and open (to the Holy Spirit) minds.

The war in heaven began AT THE BIRTH OF CHRIST. Look at Rev 12 from the beginning and you will see the references all speak of Christ's coming into the world. The devil tried earnestly to prevent it, because he knew that it would mean his demise but he was unable to do so. The war in heaven is not future; it is past and furthermore, it was WON! That verse from Rev 12 refers to Jesus' entry into our world. It's not eschatological, it's soteriological (having to do specifically with the Son).

[Bold Believer]

Was the millennium literal? Absolutely. Many of us were born at the tail end of it and saw in our youth some of its glory. Great inventions, great cities; the pinnacle of Christian society, when 'Christ' was not a curse word, when schools had no problem with the Scripture, when laws reflected the righteous teaching of God.

Men went to the moon.

Righteous nations defeated wicked ones on the battlefield.

Sin was kept in check.

Politicians served the people. Presidents didn't copulate in the oval office, and Americans would have demanded such a man relinquish his office in those days.

Kids were well disciplined by mothers who stayed home.

Drugs were in your medicine cabinet, not on the street corner.

Divorce was rare.

The very thought of murdering an unborn child was abhorrent. (People could spell abhorrent, LOL)

Matters of a sexual or private nature were private, not bandied all over the television and media.

Music sounded like music, not like some heathen ritual.

People cursed rarely if at all.

Children were spanked if they became unruly, sometimes even by a neighbor and no one thought it something to be vilified.

Homosexuals stayed under the radar, even the mention of such a thing brought shame on a family should they have anyone so deviant in their ranks.

Christianity was well respected.

Unfortunately, those of us who've seen some of the glory of that time are also seeing the depravity of the mikros chronos or little season of Satan's release.

God is a curse and a joke

Man thinks he is a God

Violence is everywhere

World in turmoil

[Steve_S]

Was the millennium literal? Absolutely. Many of us were born at the tail end of it and saw in our youth some of its glory. Great inventions, great cities; the pinnacle of Christian society, when 'Christ' was not a curse word, when schools had no problem with the Scripture, when laws reflected the righteous teaching of God.

Men went to the moon.

Righteous nations defeated wicked ones on the battlefield.

Sin was kept in check.

Politicians served the people. Presidents didn't copulate in the oval office, and Americans would have demanded such a man relinquish his office in those days.

Kids were well disciplined by mothers who stayed home.

Drugs were in your medicine cabinet, not on the street corner.

Divorce was rare.

The very thought of murdering an unborn child was abhorrent. (People could spell abhorrent, LOL)

Matters of a sexual or private nature were private, not bandied all over the television and media.

Music sounded like music, not like some heathen ritual.

People cursed rarely if at all.

Children were spanked if they became unruly, sometimes even by a neighbor and no one thought it something to be vilified.

Homosexuals stayed under the radar, even the mention of such a thing brought shame on a family should they have anyone so deviant in their ranks.

Christianity was well respected.

Unfortunately, those of us who've seen some of the glory of that time are also seeing the depravity of the mikros chronos or little season of Satan's release.

God is a curse and a joke

Man thinks he is a God

Violence is everywhere

World in turmoil

I'm confused about this logic here. Is this with reference to the united states or the world at large? There were places in the world where mentioning Jesus would get you executed during the periods which you speak.

[Bold Believer]

Was the millennium literal? Absolutely. Many of us were born at the tail end of it and saw in our youth some of its glory. Great inventions, great cities; the pinnacle of Christian society, when 'Christ' was not a curse word, when schools had no problem with the Scripture, when laws reflected the righteous teaching of God.

Men went to the moon.

Righteous nations defeated wicked ones on the battlefield.

Sin was kept in check.

Politicians served the people. Presidents didn't copulate in the oval office, and Americans would have demanded such a man relinquish his office in those days.

Kids were well disciplined by mothers who stayed home.

Drugs were in your medicine cabinet, not on the street corner.

Divorce was rare.

The very thought of murdering an unborn child was abhorrent. (People could spell abhorrent, LOL)

Matters of a sexual or private nature were private, not bandied all over the television and media.

Music sounded like music, not like some heathen ritual.

People cursed rarely if at all.

Children were spanked if they became unruly, sometimes even by a neighbor and no one thought it something to be vilified.

Homosexuals stayed under the radar, even the mention of such a thing brought shame on a family should they have anyone so deviant in their ranks.

Christianity was well respected.

Unfortunately, those of us who've seen some of the glory of that time are also seeing the depravity of the mikros chronos or little season of Satan's release.

God is a curse and a joke

Man thinks he is a God

Violence is everywhere

World in turmoil

I'm confused about this logic here. Is this with reference to the united states or the world at large? There were places in the world where mentioning Jesus would get you executed during the periods which you speak.

A little of both Steve.

In the Christian nations of the world at the time (US, UK, Germany, France, Spain) one would have been safe enough. In Russia, perhaps. In Cuba, maybe. In China, perhaps. Islamic nations didn't really bother much with Christians when they had decent rulers. You were safe in many nations in the Middle East as a Christian until the militant nutballs came along; remember we had assets in North Africa during WW2. Lebanon had a large Christian population of her own. Egypt has always had the Copts. Things got bad after the oil embargo of the 70s and then Iran.

[Steve_S]

Was the millennium literal? Absolutely. Many of us were born at the tail end of it and saw in our youth some of its glory. Great inventions, great cities; the pinnacle of Christian society, when 'Christ' was not a curse word, when schools had no problem with the Scripture, when laws reflected the righteous teaching of God.

Men went to the moon.

Righteous nations defeated wicked ones on the battlefield.

Sin was kept in check.

Politicians served the people. Presidents didn't copulate in the oval office, and Americans would have demanded such a man relinquish his office in those days.

Kids were well disciplined by mothers who stayed home.

Drugs were in your medicine cabinet, not on the street corner.

Divorce was rare.

The very thought of murdering an unborn child was abhorrent. (People could spell abhorrent, LOL)

Matters of a sexual or private nature were private, not bandied all over the television and media.

Music sounded like music, not like some heathen ritual.

People cursed rarely if at all.

Children were spanked if they became unruly, sometimes even by a neighbor and no one thought it something to be vilified.

Homosexuals stayed under the radar, even the mention of such a thing brought shame on a family should they have anyone so deviant in their ranks.

Christianity was well respected.

Unfortunately, those of us who've seen some of the glory of that time are also seeing the depravity of the mikros chronos or little season of Satan's release.

God is a curse and a joke

Man thinks he is a God

Violence is everywhere

World in turmoil

I'm confused about this logic here. Is this with reference to the united states or the world at large? There were places in the world where mentioning Jesus would get you executed during the periods which you speak.

A little of both Steve.

In the Christian nations of the world at the time (US, UK, Germany, France, Spain) one would have been safe enough. In Russia, perhaps. In Cuba, maybe. In China, perhaps. Islamic nations didn't really bother much with Christians when they had decent rulers. You were safe in many nations in the Middle East as a Christian until the militant nutballs came along; remember we had assets in North Africa during WW2. Lebanon had a large Christian population of her own. Egypt has always had the Copts. Things got bad after the oil embargo of the 70s and then Iran.

The soviets ruthlessly purged Christians, as did the maoist regime in china after that country went to communism. What i'm getting at, though, is I don't know of anything even close to what one would expect even a highly allegorical millennial reign to look like, much less a literal one, in human history to this point. It's just a huge stretch to believe otherwise.