7 trumpets=7bowls=7seals

[bornagain2011]

Ok, so tonight I was reading the book of revelations when all the sudden it started jumping out at me.... I noticed that after the 7 trumpets the whole thing starts all over again! Right before the 7th trumpet the "2 witnesses" are resurrected and taken up through the clouds, then AT the 7th trumpet blast there are lightenings and earthquakes and great hail and the temple of God is opened up in the heaven, which all describes perfectly the Lord's coming, but then....at verse 12 it starts all over again, and goes into the bowl judgments in verse 16. What I noticed is that the 7 trumpets and the 7 bowl judgments describe each other almost the same! For example; trumpets 2 & 3 describe water turning blood red and bitter, bowls 2&3 describe waters turning blood red and bitter, trumpet 4 = heavens struck, bowl 4= sun scorches people, trumpet 5= locusts that sting for 5 months and cause pain along with darkness, bowl 5= darkness and pain from sores, trumpet 6= 4 angels from Euphrates river are released to kill a third of mankind with an army of 200 million, bowl 6= Euphrates river dries up and spirits like frogs come out of the mouths of the dragon, false prophet, and beast, they go out and gather nations to battle at Armageddon, trumpet 7= kingdom of God proclaimed, lightening, earthquakes, hail, bowl 7= loud voice "It is done!" thunder, lightening, earthquakes and giant hail. I also noticed that the seals line up with the trumpets and the bowls as well, the 6th seal = cosmic disturbances, sun becomes blackened and the moon becomes like blood, then the sky receeds like a scroll and the mountains are removed, people hide themselves in the caves from the wrath of God, then it goes on to describe the multitude the John sees that have come from the Great Tribulation, then the 7th seal happens and there are thunder and lightening and an earthquake. Something else I noticed that stood out was that between trumpet 6 and 7 the 2 witnesses are described as being given the power by God to make the waters turn to blood, to cause droughts, to cause plagues which are eerily similar to the trumpet/bowl plagues....they do this for 3.5 years while being unharmed, then the beast is given power to make WAR with them, one thing that popped out was "how do you make war against 2 people??" it says the beast comes OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT to make war with them and overcome them! So, at this time the antichrist is revealed and he destroys these "2 witnesses"....then after 3.5 days they are resurrected (dead in Christ rise first) and a huge earthquake happens killing thousands then it goes IMMEDIATELY into the 7th trumpet which is lightening earthquakes, thunder and hail and God's coming. As I was piecing all this together I was quite shocked by all of it! It finally makes sense to me now! Maybe just maybe God GIVES the 2 witnesses (or us as the witnesses) the power that brings about the trumpets/bowls, they describe the same thing! I think since the waters turn blood red during trumpets and bowls 2 and 3 maybe that is one of the first things the witnesses do. I don't want to lead anyone astray, but these are the things that seemed to be revealed to me. I don't know if they are literal 2 witnesses or if they are the Jews and Christians. I don't have it all figured out yet, so I need to do some more reading and praying. I always did find it odd that the book of revelations seemed to repeat itself, it would say all the stuff about thunder and lightening and earthquakes and God coming to destroy, but then it would start all over again with more plagues! Sorry about not having paragraphs, my Enter key has stopped working . God bless!

[bornagain2011]

Ok I just had another thought....maybe just maybe we escape the wrath of God because we are the ones causing it, maybe we are the 2 witnesses that God gives His power to and are able to cause all the plagues, and then because of this we are killed and people rejoice, they wage war on us (tribulation) because of the plagues we are able to give (7 trumpets/7 bowls). When you read through the book of revelations it puts the parts about us right between trumpets 6 and 7 . So, "2 witnesses" cause the plagues, then they are persecuted by the beast which just revealed himself ...."When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them...". Is this really far fetched? Wrath first then the Tribulation? The wrath causes the tribulation? If you notice in chapter 11 that after these 2 witnesses are killed and resurrected there is no more wrath? Just the dead arise then the last trumpet (at the last trumpet, the dead in Christ will rise first, then us who are alive and remain will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air). It looks like when the witnesses are resurrected THAT is when the rapture is! Let me know what you guys think! P.S. kind of looks like some of the plagues are already happening, rivers turning like blood, Euphrates river drying up, droughts, locusts, meteors.

[goldust59]

Bornagain, I think you are right about the saints being the 2 witnesses and have seen the same as you concerning Revelation. I think it is only some of the saints that receive this honor though--the overcomers, the manchild of Rev 12. Look at Daniel 7,11 & 12 to go with your thoughts on Rev. Also look at Joel 2, about the Lord's "army" & what they do in the "day of the Lord". Also Romans 8,esp verses 18,19.

Remember that Revelation is the "revealing" or "unveiling" and that is when I think Christ is fully revealed to and in us and also shown to the world.

Blessings,

Deb

[joi]

Good thinking ladies!

[wingnut-]

Ok, so tonight I was reading the book of revelations when all the sudden it started jumping out at me.... I noticed that after the 7 trumpets the whole thing starts all over again! Right before the 7th trumpet the "2 witnesses" are resurrected and taken up through the clouds, then AT the 7th trumpet blast there are lightenings and earthquakes and great hail and the temple of God is opened up in the heaven, which all describes perfectly the Lord's coming, but then....at verse 12 it starts all over again, and goes into the bowl judgments in verse 16. What I noticed is that the 7 trumpets and the 7 bowl judgments describe each other almost the same! For example; trumpets 2 & 3 describe water turning blood red and bitter, bowls 2&3 describe waters turning blood red and bitter, trumpet 4 = heavens struck, bowl 4= sun scorches people, trumpet 5= locusts that sting for 5 months and cause pain along with darkness, bowl 5= darkness and pain from sores, trumpet 6= 4 angels from Euphrates river are released to kill a third of mankind with an army of 200 million, bowl 6= Euphrates river dries up and spirits like frogs come out of the mouths of the dragon, false prophet, and beast, they go out and gather nations to battle at Armageddon, trumpet 7= kingdom of God proclaimed, lightening, earthquakes, hail, bowl 7= loud voice "It is done!" thunder, lightening, earthquakes and giant hail. I also noticed that the seals line up with the trumpets and the bowls as well, the 6th seal = cosmic disturbances, sun becomes blackened and the moon becomes like blood, then the sky receeds like a scroll and the mountains are removed, people hide themselves in the caves from the wrath of God, then it goes on to describe the multitude the John sees that have come from the Great Tribulation, then the 7th seal happens and there are thunder and lightening and an earthquake. Something else I noticed that stood out was that between trumpet 6 and 7 the 2 witnesses are described as being given the power by God to make the waters turn to blood, to cause droughts, to cause plagues which are eerily similar to the trumpet/bowl plagues....they do this for 3.5 years while being unharmed, then the beast is given power to make WAR with them, one thing that popped out was "how do you make war against 2 people??" it says the beast comes OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT to make war with them and overcome them! So, at this time the antichrist is revealed and he destroys these "2 witnesses"....then after 3.5 days they are resurrected (dead in Christ rise first) and a huge earthquake happens killing thousands then it goes IMMEDIATELY into the 7th trumpet which is lightening earthquakes, thunder and hail and God's coming. As I was piecing all this together I was quite shocked by all of it! It finally makes sense to me now! Maybe just maybe God GIVES the 2 witnesses (or us as the witnesses) the power that brings about the trumpets/bowls, they describe the same thing! I think since the waters turn blood red during trumpets and bowls 2 and 3 maybe that is one of the first things the witnesses do. I don't want to lead anyone astray, but these are the things that seemed to be revealed to me. I don't know if they are literal 2 witnesses or if they are the Jews and Christians. I don't have it all figured out yet, so I need to do some more reading and praying. I always did find it odd that the book of revelations seemed to repeat itself, it would say all the stuff about thunder and lightening and earthquakes and God coming to destroy, but then it would start all over again with more plagues! Sorry about not having paragraphs, my Enter key has stopped working . God bless!

Revelation is broken up into several parts, an outline of events, and then more specifics of the events. I'm not sure what part you are referring to because you only mention verses, and not the chapters. As far as the two witnesses, I see no reason to assert this represents more than two individuals. In Rev 11:8 it states that their bodies will lay in the street of the city, given the limited space how do you account for this being a mass group of people rather than just two?

[bornagain2011]

I typed all that last night at around one AM, so my thoughts were a bit jumbled and I don't think I did a very good job trying to explain everything! Maybe they mention just the witnesses killed in Jerusalem because that is the holy city. I don't know. Maybe they could just be 2 people. But I have a funny feeling they are us given the power to inflict the plagues. I noticed that when these witnesses are resurrected right before the last trumpet, they don't mention any more plagues. No more plagues after they are caught up to the Lord! I will pray some more about this, but this makes my spirit sing with understanding! Unless I am deluding myself! Which could be possible as well! I just see now that revelations is 3 different perspectives of the same events. The perspective using the seals, then using the trumpets, then using the bowls. I will have to re-read it again when I am not so tired. Last night I was going kind of crazy devouring all of it because I was so excited about what I was finding! So next time I get enough sleep I will go through it again with a rested brain! LOL! Maybe there are more people who have come to this conclusion. I find the choice of wording a bit odd when it says "he will make WAR with the witnesses and overcome them" I can't imagine one person making war against just 2 people. That wouldn't really be a war would it? More like a quick murder? I don't know. These are just my thoughts. Enter key still not working! Sorry about no paragraphs again! Thank you guys for your responses! If what I am seeing is correct, this is very very important! I have always been taught as a Christian that it is tribulation first then God's wrath, but it appears to be opposite.

[gdemoss]

As I study this mystery, I am finding that their are unseen sources that seek to be the one who declare the truth of it unto me. I have not been able to successfully understand how to rightly divide this portion of the word of God. I have ideas. Things I keep in my heart. I am in watch mode. Watching for any and all sin in my life, confessing that which I find and seeking to be fully awake and alive unto God. Watching for areas in the lives of my brethren where I can encourage them to seek purity and give a good witness of Christ.

I sat last night with a man who I am getting closer too and revealed unto him that which I have heard and thought to be true fully expecting him to reject all that I had to share but was surprised instead to hear him say, you just might be right we shall soon see. That he saw no real conflict in that which I proposed. But he was more interested in working to get me to stop the endless pursuit of seeking to know every mystery and detail, instead to focus upon performing God's work well while I wait for the plan to begin to unfold around us. As our beloved sister sevenseas as worked to do, he sought to calm the alarm in me by showing me that fear of God is good but a fearful spirit is not. This has been difficult for me.

The saddest part of it all is that I truly don't want it all to go down. I just want to live a simple life with a wife and children bearing a good witness of the love of Christ unto those who come in contact with me. That, however, doesn't seem like a likely event, except it be that God send the destroyer through the land to destroy the wicked leaving only those who truly trust in Christ behind along side any unbelievers who have lived and done those things contained in the law according to that which is written upon their hearts. In this respect I like Psalm 30.

Peace and love in Christ Jesus our Lord!

[Jonah'sJourney]

Good observations! I understand the seventh seal to comprise both the 7 trumps and the 7 bowls, with the trumps and bowls being the same judgments viewed from two different perspectives. I also see the Two Witnesses not as two individuals but two groups of believers = the tribulation saints who are martyred then raised.

[Sevenseas]

Ok I just had another thought....maybe just maybe we escape the wrath of God because we are the ones causing it, maybe we are the 2 witnesses that God gives His power to and are able to cause all the plagues, and then because of this we are killed and people rejoice, they wage war on us (tribulation) because of the plagues we are able to give (7 trumpets/7 bowls). When you read through the book of revelations it puts the parts about us right between trumpets 6 and 7 . So, "2 witnesses" cause the plagues, then they are persecuted by the beast which just revealed himself ...."When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them...". Is this really far fetched? Wrath first then the Tribulation? The wrath causes the tribulation? If you notice in chapter 11 that after these 2 witnesses are killed and resurrected there is no more wrath? Just the dead arise then the last trumpet (at the last trumpet, the dead in Christ will rise first, then us who are alive and remain will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air). It looks like when the witnesses are resurrected THAT is when the rapture is! Let me know what you guys think! P.S. kind of looks like some of the plagues are already happening, rivers turning like blood, Euphrates river drying up, droughts, locusts, meteors.

uh...no. That thought has been posted in these forums before....the Bible says 2 witnesses...I take it to mean 2 witnesses. As in one.........and another one. Which makes 2.

Respectfully, understanding the revelation of John is not conjecture...just as Jesus gave John the vision, so is He able to give all understanding...but you know, it appears He

has chosen not to do that

You do understand how very old John was and that he had a lifetime of experience and the ability to discern and knew Jesus personally, right? Revelation such as John

had is closed I believe..

But I have a funny feeling they are us given the power to inflict the plagues. I noticed that when these witnesses are resurrected right before the last trumpet, they don't mention any more plagues. No more plagues after they are caught up to the Lord!

The gifts are given for the edification of the body. What you state, would indicate you have some kind of revelatory gift...that is the only way you could state what you do.

However, the revelatory gifts are not for lone ranger prophets or those so young in Christ that they cannot discern.

Can God speak to an individual in a manner concerning their own life? Absolutely...but the revelation has already been given concerning the end times...I am positive that

as things proceed, what is unclear now will, in fact, become clear.....God does things purposefully and in a progressive way....He is not in a hurry

God does things in order....we do not discern by funny feelings or even dreams. There is so much of this type of thing going around and it really is only guesswork

and conjecture.

I understand some people do not want to hear that, however, God does not take shortcuts with people....whether a person dies today or 50 years from now, will not

change how God works one little bit...the Bible says that most people should not desire to teach.and for good reason because that is the bigger responsibility...yet,

that does not seem to dissuade people from declaring that they have heard personally from God and that they dreamt or had a vision.

We are living in the age of deception and I would be amiss to leave out the fact that Christians are absolutely gullible and open for deception...in fact, the more one

peers into the spiritual realm, the more they had better understand that fact. I am probably talking Chinese to some right now

Our way is indicated in the Bible...we are not to follow dreams, signs and visions as these will increase and be an indication of the anti-Christ actually, so a person

really needs to be very careful that what they are listening to and believing is actually scriptural and not just spiritual. Spiritual does not mean it is holy.

I know what is says in the book of Joel. But that is not the only book in the Bible.

I can only warn...I know these words are often unwelcome. However, this is just an online forum....as we go forward, keep in mind that things will become so dark and

heavy with deception, that if you fail to grasp that now, it will be too late then.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

II Tim 4:3

Sound doctrine is not a vision or a dream...it is what is written in the 66 books in our Bibles.

They say to the seers, "See no more visions!" and to the prophets, "Give us no more visions of what is right! Tell us pleasant things, prophesy illusions. Isaiah 30:10

For the time will come - There is a time coming to the Church when men will not hear the practical truths of the Gospel, when they will prefer speculative opinions, which either do no good to the soul, or corrupt and destroy it, to that wholesome doctrine of "deny thyself, take up thy cross and follow me," which Jesus Christ has left in his Church (Clarkes Commentary)..

Feelings are not an indicator of truth....truth reveals error...

[joi]

As I study this mystery, I am finding that their are unseen sources that seek to be the one who declare the truth of it unto me. I have not been able to successfully understand how to rightly divide this portion of the word of God. I have ideas. Things I keep in my heart. I am in watch mode. Watching for any and all sin in my life, confessing that which I find and seeking to be fully awake and alive unto God. Watching for areas in the lives of my brethren where I can encourage them to seek purity and give a good witness of Christ.

I sat last night with a man who I am getting closer too and revealed unto him that which I have heard and thought to be true fully expecting him to reject all that I had to share but was surprised instead to hear him say, you just might be right we shall soon see. That he saw no real conflict in that which I proposed. But he was more interested in working to get me to stop the endless pursuit of seeking to know every mystery and detail, instead to focus upon performing God's work well while I wait for the plan to begin to unfold around us. As our beloved sister sevenseas as worked to do, he sought to calm the alarm in me by showing me that fear of God is good but a fearful spirit is not. This has been difficult for me.

The saddest part of it all is that I truly don't want it all to go down. I just want to live a simple life with a wife and children bearing a good witness of the love of Christ unto those who come in contact with me. That, however, doesn't seem like a likely event, except it be that God send the destroyer through the land to destroy the wicked leaving only those who truly trust in Christ behind along side any unbelievers who have lived and done those things contained in the law according to that which is written upon their hearts. In this respect I like Psalm 30.

Peace and love in Christ Jesus our Lord!

May I remind you of 1 Corinthians 2:9?

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

You may accomplish your desires in the 1000 year reign Gary.

Isaiah 40

³¹ But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

Patience my friend!