King Saul's possession

[other one]

What should we learn from the life of King Saul.

http://www.gotquesti.../life-Saul.html

When God tells you to do something....... you'd better do it

[Sevenseas]

The Holy Spirit has always indwelt believers of God because without this indwelling no man could be considered righteous imo.

I don't understand the connection you have made here. Please understand that the Bible does not teach that the Holy Spirit has ALWAYS indwelt those whom God has counted righteous.

Why was Abraham accounted righteous? Simply because he believed God...his FAITH in God was accounted righteous: So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Gal. 3

A person might ask themself if Abraham was a Christian...had he accepted Jesus as his Savior...well, no, of course not. Abraham simply believed what God had said to him and he acted upon it, much the same way Christians now believe that God sent His Son to die in their place and our faith is accounted righteous as we act upon what we have heard and accept that Jesus died

in our place.

We can also ask why Jesus said that God would SEND the Holy Spirit...to indwell believers...there is no record of this occuring prior to this event in Acts. ONLY after Jesus ascended, do we read

of the Holy Spirit indwelling all believers. It just did not happen prior to that event.

[Sevenseas]

No Promise Of Indwelling A simple explanation of what most believe concerning the Holy Spirit in OT times

There is no promise in the Old Testament to the believer that he will be indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

And the Lord said to Moses: "Take Joshua the son of Nun with you, a man in whom

is

the Spirit, lay your hand on him" (

Numbers 27:18

).

This verse seems to indicate that the Holy Spirit is not to be found in everyone. By stating that the Holy Spirit is in Joshua, it infers He is not universally given. The Spirit is said to have come upon other individuals, such as Othniel:

The Spirit of the Lord came upon him and he judged Israel (

Judges 3:10

).

The reason this view—that only certain individuals were indwelt with the Holy Spirit - is held is based upon an understanding of a statement made by Jesus:

Even

the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you (

John 14:17

).

This verse is interpreted to mean that the Holy Spirit was only with believers during Old Testament times but now dwells within each believer in the New Testament age

[Guest ninhao]

I don't understand the connection you have made here. Please understand that the Bible does not teach that the Holy Spirit has ALWAYS indwelt those whom God has counted righteous.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

There has only ever been one method of salvation which is by the Spirit of Christ. Abraham knew Christ in advance.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

I always wonder why we separate OT saints in such a way.

Being considered righteous by God implies being saved which necessitates Holy spirit indwelling.

Why was Abraham accounted righteous? Simply because he believed God...his FAITH in God was accounted righteous: So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Gal. 3

A person might ask themself if Abraham was a Christian...had he accepted Jesus as his Savior...well, no, of course not. Abraham simply believed what God had said to him and he acted upon it, much the same way Christians now believe that God sent His Son to die in their place and our faith is accounted righteous as we act upon what we have heard and accept that Jesus died

in our place.

Yes Abraham was considered righteous because of his faith in the same way we are today.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Abraham indeed knew Christ.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Abraham understood propitiatory sacrifice and resurrection.

Gen 22:12-13 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. (13) And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

Heb 11:17-19 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, (18) Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: (19) Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

We can also ask why Jesus said that God would SEND the Holy Spirit...to indwell believers...there is no record of this occuring prior to this event in Acts. ONLY after Jesus ascended, do we read

of the Holy Spirit indwelling all believers. It just did not happen prior to that event.

Firstly, Jesus gave the Holy Spirit before Acts.

Joh 20:21-22 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Now this does not support my premise though. Jesus here gave special powers to the disciples which we can call gifts maybe.

The premise I propose suggests ALL believers OT and NT and NOW are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. In the NT there was a need for most visible and demonstrative applications of the Holy Spirit to give undeniable evidence, especially to the Jew, that God was indeed working amongst all people.

Remember Jesus was insistent Nicodemus should have understood being born again.

Joh 3:7-10 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (9) Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? (10) Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

All believers have been born of the Holy Spirit (indwelt); OT and NT and NOW. There is no other way.

I think sometimes confusion happens when we think all Jews were indwelt with the Holy Spirit. This isn't so.

Rom 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: (29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

( I hope this expose hasn't been too disjointed)

[missmuffet]

What should we learn from the life of King Saul.

http://www.gotquesti.../life-Saul.html

When God tells you to do something....... you'd better do it

Lol!! You got it.

[Sevenseas]

Ninhao...the question is whether or not the Holy Spirit indwelt the Israelites in the OT as He does with us now. There is no evidence of that in the Bible

I am truly not sure of what you are trying to state.

I always wonder why we separate OT saints in such a way.

Being considered righteous by God implies being saved which necessitates Holy spirit indwelling.

I am not separating OT from NT...I think the Bible does a pretty good job of that itself.

I don't think you will find scripture to back up what you are saying...I provided scripture that indicates there is a difference.

Do you have scripture that says what you seem to be saying? I have heard people ask if they spoke in tongues in the OT...there is no evidence of that either

Again, the change came AFTER Jesus went back up into heaven...the Bible just does not say what you are trying to make it say....

Stating that everyone had to be filled with the Holy Spirit is looking at what the NT states, and then going backwards and applying it.

I appreciate what you are stating, but I am not going to go back and forth with this because I have found it's just a waste of time when there are only two

respondents...nothing personal, but I doubt either of us is going to change their position..

Blessed is not even weighing in here...so...I might respond if other people get involved...hope you understand...

Thanks

[GoldenEagle]

What should we learn from the life of King Saul.

http://www.gotquesti.../life-Saul.html

When God tells you to do something....... you'd better do it

Lol!! You got it.

Yes. Amen!

[GoldenEagle]

Ninhao...the question is whether or not the Holy Spirit indwelt the Israelites in the OT as He does with us now. There is no evidence of that in the Bible

I would tend to agree.

I always wonder why we separate OT saints in such a way.

Being considered righteous by God implies being saved which necessitates Holy spirit indwelling.

Where is the Biblical evidence for this please Ninhao?

Interesting discussion.

God bless you both!

GE

[Matthitjah]

There was a specific promise made to Abraham and his seed both phyiscal seed and those who would adhere by Faith.

In that specific promise there was a specific promise of a Blessing. That Blessing was to be given in order that we might be a blessing. That Blessing is fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

Hebrew's states this;

Heb 11:13

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.

What promises you might ask? The Promises that God made to Abraham and his descendents both by Faith and in the flesh.

It is evident that Abraham never receieved thse promises fully but died looking forward to them.

They are all bound up in the Messiah whom we have received. Be mindful that the Messiah is a very Jewish concept. Abraham caught this concept by Faith in the offering up of Isaac.

Regardless, we have received this precious promise and even more, God Himself, the Messiah.

2Pe 1:4

By which are given unto us exceedingly great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

We have partaken of the divine nature that Abraham only saw from afar off and believed on. He looked forward to it and God say's that he even obtained it because he lives, but he did not come by it in this life. We have. We are indwelt with the very nature of God.

While Abraham and men like him never obtained it, we have.

Joh 7:39

(But this spoke he of the Spirit, whom they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

The Holy Spirit was the Promised Blessing and although He abode with men in times past. He would soon indwell them.

It's not too hard to grasp.

What exactly do you think Paul was trying to explain to Agrippa?

Ac 26:6

And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers:

Ac 26:7

Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

Ac 26:8

Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

Peace,

Dave

[Guest ninhao]

Was the gift of indwelling of the Holy Spirit a promise God gave to Abraham and does this mean Abraham himself was not indwelt by the Holy spirit.

This is interesting and although I'm much a novice on this subject I will give my assessment if that's ok.

Gen 12:1-3 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: (2) And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: (3) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

"and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

I assume this part of God's promises to Abraham is concerning the coming Messiah. Let us look closely at this promise and what it entails.

" and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed" . Interesting that this promise is something which will be given to all families of the earth "in" Abraham. This to me implies that the blessing will come about because the blesser, Christ Jesus, will come from the lineage of Abraham.

The implications from the blessing God endowed upon all families of the earth "in" Abraham are

1. Jesus came from Abraham's lineage

Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

....

Luk 3:34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,

2. All people would receive this blessing and not only direct descendant of Abraham. All who have faith become heirs to the promise given to Abraham.

Rom 4:16-18 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (17) (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. (18) Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

So far the promise does not imply the indwelling of the Holy Spirit was not available to Abraham but that the indwelling of the Holy spirit would become available to all who have faith.

It seems this is about salvation going out to all the world.

Gal 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now 2 Peter is interesting.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Here Peter was making clear that because of the "precious promises" ( all families blessed ) the "partaking of the divine nature" ( being saved and having the Spirit of Christ ) was available to "ye" ( the recipients of the letter ) . It was not a special privilege only given to the elite.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I see no reason to claim the promise made to Abraham was concerning the indwelling of the Holy Spirit but more likely that this promise was concerning the availability of salvation ( and thence the Holy Spirit ) to all people not only the Jew.

Abraham was indwelt by the Spirit of Christ I am confident.