Guest shiloh357 Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 God hears all prayers, but may not act upon them. If He did not, how would He be Omniscience? That is true, but I think the use of "hear," as used in this thread means hearing with the desire and/or intent to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted May 19, 2013 perhaps i am narrow-mindedly looking at this subject because of my experience... Oh if I had a dollar for every time I..... I am still guilty of this. I do not know how to get around coloring things according to my experience. Thanks for your care brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2013 ummm...the op was not originally about OT saint salvation..it got dragged kicking and screaming in that direction....the original op contained several questions...I did read it. It was exhausting as it just went around and around and around and.....I don't expect agreement which in a kind of paradoxical way explains my disatisfaction with it...anyhows.......this is really not about salvation...but about God hearing the prayers of the unsaved. Consider this a speedbump.....but I guess it's already too late... I'm sorry but how does Rev 13:8 tie into the op here? I agree the OP was not originally about OT saint salvation but preceded into a very profitable, and good spirited discussion in which all parties appeared to have gained. If you expect resolution in threads where all parties agree maybe you won't read many doctrinal posts Ok how does Jesus been slain from the foundation of the world relate to the OP. All prayers made to the One true God are heard by Christ. imo Not all people who prayed to the One True God knew Christ, directly, but they were indeed still praying to Him; even if they are non believers. Oh come on Ninhao. My point is about going so far off track that the original op is lost and has no hope of revival. If you expect resolution in threads where all parties agree maybe you won't read many doctrinal posts That's not called for. My point, was the fact that the thread became something YOU wanted to discuss rather than what it was actually about and I see that could happen again and frankly, I would rather it stayed on track. Not meaning to sound trite or rude, but I would like to suggest that the actual difficulty might be in the need to start a thread for a different interest rather than deter one that is already ongoing and has apparent interest. I hope you understand my point? It's just a simple matter of allowing those who wish to discuss the current topic of the op to be allowed to do so and if the inspiration to jump tracks strikes, that the person who wishes to have a totally different conversation, would start a new op and even link to it so that those who want to pursue that other line of thought can do so and those who prefer to stay focused can also do so. Of course there is always room for new thought or objection, but I think it is also nice to be able to really examine something without rabbit trails going down into 'wonderland.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninhao Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Oh come on Ninhao. My point is about going so far off track that the original op is lost and has no hope of revival. I still don't understand your point.Are you saying my explanation of how pre Christ people prayed to the One True God is not relevant to this thread ? That's not called for. My point, was the fact that the thread became something YOU wanted to discuss rather than what it was actually about and I see that could happen again and frankly, I would rather it stayed on track. Not meaning to sound trite or rude, but I would like to suggest that the actual difficulty might be in the need to start a thread for a different interest rather than deter one that is already ongoing and has apparent interest. My post in this thread is relevant and close enough to not cause a distraction. Maybe you are being a little precious. I hope you understand my point? It's just a simple matter of allowing those who wish to discuss the current topic of the op to be allowed to do so and if the inspiration to jump tracks strikes, that the person who wishes to have a totally different conversation, would start a new op and even link to it so that those who want to pursue that other line of thought can do so and those who prefer to stay focused can also do so. Your interjection seems to be causing the distraction. Of course there is always room for new thought or objection, but I think it is also nice to be able to really examine something without rabbit trails going down into 'wonderland.' There is a sure fire way to be sure my posts, which you assert are not relevant to a thread, don't distract from the OP. Don't respond to them I think you are over reacting, seriously. Leave the moderation to the Servants or hit the report button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted May 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2013 There is a sure fire way to be sure my posts, which you assert are not relevant to a thread, don't distract from the OP. Don't respond to them I think you are over reacting, seriously. Leave the moderation to the Servants or hit the report button. Thanks. I understand where you are coming from so much better now. My post in this thread is relevant and close enough to not cause a distraction. Maybe you are being a little precious. Well not really. Blessed bascially agreed with me that you are not following the op but diverting...again. So I can only ask again, that you kindly respect the reason for a thread and start another thread. This has nothing to do with moderation...it has to do with consideration on your part towards others and a polite request that you try to keep on track. Blesseds answer to your question concerning the diversion I am writing about: nin, that question is as broad as the Pacific, and i agree with seven that it is a bit beyond this topic's scope. but i would say that it is case-dependent.. So, while I may be precious, and to be sure I am to some, I am not alone in my preciousness. You are just not 'hearing' what is being said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted May 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2013 BlessedbytheBest perhaps i am narrow-mindedly looking at this subject because of my experience... perhaps i should remain quiet until i have more fully understood His reasons for allowing it... but i do know this...many will be deceived by those who come in His name, and if i do not adhere to and proclaim the precepts found in His Word concerning the Gospel of salvation, i may find myself complicit in the condemnation of another. forgive me if i am out of bounds, or in error brother... i do believe there is a world's difference between God hearing prayer, and God answering. He hears every prayer, so to answer the OP...yes. i only warn the readers to take heed... to the nature of the responses... and seek not after signs and wonders. for my brothers and sisters in Christ, those signs will follow us. but it is all in our Father's hands.......His sovereignty is beyond what we can comprehend..... please pray for each other, and i weep for the lost almost daily... I agree about deception for sure...if you are familiar with my posts at all, you will know this is true. We are not granted some kind of all encompassing magic protection wherein we can forge ahead and not be concerned with truth, error or spirits deceptively operating as messengers from God in our life or in the lives of those around us, all while professing Christ, truth and inerrancy. I also agree with your statement that there is a world of difference between God hearing and God answering prayer. With that in mind, and in keeping with the op, here is a quote from a short article I thought appropriate and I've provided a link so that it can be read it its entirety. Note this fact also: the statement in John 9:31 was not based on the belief Jesus was a Gentile and hence had no access to God (as some try to argue about non-Christians). They knew he was a Jew (John 7:41). They accepted him therefore as a "child of God." But though such, he was branded as a "sinner" - of such low character that God would not even be interested in the prayers of such a rebellious person - and they had the O. T. to prove it! Again, there is no way to fit this case to the argument God will not hear any prayer of a non-Christian. The truth is that the "sinner" of John 9:31 is not at all talking about a non-Christian (or a Gentile), but of a "child of God" (as in the O.T.) who would not even listen to the law of God. He would not "worship" God or "do his will." He had no right, such being the case, to expect God to listen to him. These conditions are necessary today even if a Christian expects to be heard by God (read 1 Jn. 3:22). This was the frame of mind of the "sinner" who went down justified in Luke 18:13-14. This same reverence and submissiveness was also apparent in the attitudes of the "sinners" who were heard in Acts 9 and 10. The true parallel to John 9:31 is found in 1 Peter 3:7, where a Christian (a child of God - parallel to the Jews of the O.T.) is told if he doesn't treat his wife right (as told by God), God will not hear his prayers (and Psa. 34 is quoted as evidence in 1 Pet. 3:12!). Let us beware that we do not make false arguments to reply to false positions, and thus reach other false conclusions. Keeping the statement in John 9:31 in its proper context will make it much easier to understand correctly - and to apply properly. The above is from the end of the article but I find it provoking and I like things that make you think. Here's the link for anyone to read if they would like. Again, it's a short article. I'll just note that I know nothing bout the author, but thought the article was biblical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2013 God hears all prayers, but may not act upon them. If He did not, how would He be Omniscience? That is true, but I think the use of "hear," as used in this thread means hearing with the desire and/or intent to answer. Thanks Brother. It seems the usage is improper if this is the case. In other words, it can be misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2013 This is a general suggestion to all. Each thread provides opportunities to go in different directions. If someone has a desire to take the conversation down a different path then the OP intended, it is best to start another thread to discuss the subject. It is very hard to follow a thread that has many discussions, each discussion different, though similar. Please respect the desires of the OP and stay on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted May 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2013 I believe God does answer the prayers of unbelievers. I was not saved when God answered my first prayer. I asked Jesus into my heart right after the answer, I was 5. It was a child's prayer....and was actually a bit of a challenge...but God answered immediately in the affirmative and caused something to happen that showed me He is real. Simple. God knows our hearts and why we pray and what is in our hearts when we pray....saved, or not. That was a prayer of repentance and salvation and that is why He answered it.If someone is an unbeliever I don't know why they would pray. No, BoPeep...there was no prayer of repentance. I was 5 years old and had never heard that word. I asked God to do something to show me He was real. I had never heard of God before Sunday School and I did not know He was real. He immediately answered my prayer by doing what I asked of Him. I immediately asked Jesus to be my Savior as I had heard in Sunday School. No one mentioned repentance in that church...they didn't even teach it and certainly not to 5 year olds. You cannot repent if you do not even know what sin is. I was not saved when I prayed. I was saved ONLY AFTER God answered me. At any rate, there are scriptures provided in this thread that indicate God does hear and answer those who are not saved. This, is not debatable. It is simply fact. I cannot change the order of what happened. It might not fit into some people's theology, but God often does not fit into some people's theology either. I am surprised that some people believe God does not hear prayers from regular Joes....of course He does! He is God...He hears it all....whether He answers or not, is at HIS discretion. Interestingly, there are prayers from Christians that God will NOT hear. For the same reason He does not hear the prayers of those who reject Him. The NT admonishes believers who do not pray with the right attitude or Christians who ask amiss. God ALWAYS looks at our heart...motives...many believers seem to have the attitude that God is a dispensing machine. Romans 10 say to "call on the name of the Lord and you will be saved." So unbelievers can call out to God. Jesus christ said the tax collector prayed: "Lord have mercy on me a sinner" such a prayer God heard. You were seeking God.Especially as a child.God is going to be swift in receiving a child and answering their prayers.You wanted answers and he sure was willing to give them to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninhao Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Well not really. Blessed bascially agreed with me that you are not following the op but diverting...again. So I can only ask again, that you kindly respect the reason for a thread and start another thread. This has nothing to do with moderation...it has to do with consideration on your part towards others and a polite request that you try to keep on track. Blesseds answer to your question concerning the diversion I am writing about: I consider my post here is indeed very relevant to the OP. Pre- Christ people prayed to God and, as has been suggested especially by BlessedByTheBest, prayers must lead to the foot of the cross which I agree. ..prayers heard, or heard and answered, are all beautiful testimonies to His unending love.. but if they do not lead to the foot of the cross then that sinner is praying to a false god. My position is that all prayers lead to the foot of the cross because Jesus was the Lamb of God slain before the world was founded. Any prayers by pre-Christ people, believers or not, were to the One True God and therefore towards Jesus. Maybe my demonstrations are not to your pleasing, and some others, but perhaps this is because you don't like my premises and hence don't see the connections. So maybe you can tell me where the prayers of the pre- Christ Aborigine, who initially would be considered a non believer, were directed and did God answer them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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