Gay Christians who choose celibacy.....

[enoob57]

 

 

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You don't seem to get it, but its ok.  You can say my reasoning is flawed, thats fine.  As I said, we have an outline, but when it comes to filling in the details there is more trouble.  This is the reason why we continue on.  Somethings we may not view the same way after some time.  Somethings may never change. But to label someone as unrepentant based on what they view as sin or not is flawed.  We are sinful, we will be so until we are out of this flesh.  The only reason why we are not looked upon as the wretches we are is due to the Blood that is covering us....if we have accepted this wonderful sacrifice on our behalf.  So again...it is still quite obvious you had no clue what I was getting at hope it is more clear. If not...then there is nothing left to say. 

 

 

 

enoob's reply:

Friend God clearly says it is in the heart - the thought life where sins begins.... as this is God's statement of truth that we may be able to know

where the true battle lies! The Love of God should cause us to go in the way of sanctification for we see other thoughts that do not line up with

His Word... this is the renewing of the mind so that we may merge into the Mind of Our Lord- we can actually agree as He 'IS' and the least little

suggestion that opposes that Person of Our Lord we immediately go to war with using His Word that has led us there to start with...

Ps 12:2-4

2 They speak idly everyone with his neighbor; With flattering lips and a double heart they speak.

3 May the Lord cut off all flattering lips, And the tongue that speaks proud things,

4 Who have said, "With our tongue we will prevail;

Our lips are our own;

Who is lord over us?"

NKJV

Ps 55:21

21 The words of his mouth were smoother than butter,

But war was in his heart;

His words were softer than oil,

Yet they were drawn swords.

NKJV

Lk 11:39-40

39 Then the Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees make the outside of the cup and dish clean,

but your inward part is full of greed and wickedness.  40 Foolish ones! Did not He who made the

outside make the inside also?

NKJV

It is with the heart that we bring ourselves into conformity to the Word and as we do this we see

more and more clearly to the real battle that we are in... as you have correctly identified that the

blood of Christ is what will make us completely clean in the end but now we are to be allowing that

work to be perfected here as a witness to His reality  within us to others!  Love, Steven

 

[Guest shiloh357]

You don't seem to get it, but its ok.  You can say my reasoning is flawed, thats fine.  As I said, we have an outline, but when it comes to filling in the details there is more trouble.  This is the reason why we continue on.  Somethings we may not view the same way after some time.  Somethings may never change. But to label someone as unrepentant based on what they view as sin or not is flawed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is not a matter of saying that someone is unrepentant because of what they view as sin or not.   It is when they harbor known sin in their heart, and refuse to agree with the Word of God that their sin is infact, sin.   It is when the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin and someone who is living in homsexuality says, "no, it is not a sin."  THAT is an unrepentant person.  They are refusing to repent of what God has clearly said is a sin.  What is even worse is when they claim that they are Christians but refuse to repent.  Repentance is necessary, but since the reject sin as God defines it, they are inpentent and they refuse to come in line with the Word of God.

 

 

You will

attempt to say that the Bible says so, when in fact it does not, and it is totally up to God to change the heart of the person concerning the matter.

 

Actually, the Bible DOES command against self-destructive habits and ways of living.  Laziness, gluttony, drunkenness, etc.   The Bible doesn't list every sin that a person could commit.  The Bible doesn't condemn the act of pouring lighter fluid all over yourself and setting yourself on fire, but the Bible DOES provide  a behavioral paradigm that we can extrapolate from to determine how God views actions that He doesn't expressly address.  So smoking isn't mentioned in the Bible, but smoking is directly linked to various cancers.  My uncle died as a direct result of his smoking habit. Smoking can cause irreversible damage to your body and since God is against other actions that tear down the Body and make it unhealthy, it is not hard to see that God would be against filling your body with tar and the other chemicals that go into ciggarettes.

[enoob57]

 

I'm not disputing where sin begins.  This is not what I am saying at all.  It is pretty easily understood where sin begins. 

Actually it is with God's Spirit that we are brought into conformity.  We cannot bring ourselves to conform to anything,

why do you think we are even having this discussion.  They can't bring themselves to conform, but who can?  As you stated, it is how

we allow that work to be perfected here in us that will bear witness to His reality. Now look around you.  Look at our witness of Him.

Look at His Bride...and these things are not recent, but have been long with us.  Our witness is poor, and wretched...why...because apparantly

we have no clue what we are walking in.  Apparantly we only give credence to those who "act like what ever group we act like".  Such a poor testimony.

This is not to mean live loosly, but just goes to show that we don't take the examples of Peter, Paul, David, Sampson, and many others to heart. 

These guys were utter failures, who continued on dispite their sin, despite their failure, depite the shortcomings they had.  These guys testified of Christ

and we see them as pillars overlooking their faults.  I wonder how many Peters and Sampsons we count and unrepentant and nonchristians in this age? 

Thanks brother, for your words.  But I think we are talkin about two different things.

 

 

 

 

enoob's reply:

Friend I would examine the spirit that suggest to you the reasoning that we cannot tell w(W)ho is within us or others by their fruit of their lives...

God says we shall be known by our fruits... that is His Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are His Children!  No child of His will

receive sin as acceptable ever unless they are not feeding themselves by His Word and are nearly dead from starvation! The Spiritual

life feeds daily from His Word as the physical the food that is here... no where in His Word are we given right to tolerate sin- we are to reckon

it as death and separate ourselves from it as children of His Dear Life! God has told us that in these last days many hearts will grow cold

because of the increase in wickedness... common sense would dictate a requirement to get alone more with God than spending time in

the place of increase of wickedness- a must for survival... also do not expect the multitude to support right when most are opposed to it

by denial of His Word!  Love, Steven

[Guest shiloh357]

Truth is in what both of you say, but how do we apply it to this?  How do we dismiss these ones that may genuinely love God yet still struggle with this unnatural attraction?   

 

 

 

Ruck, we have been over this ad nauseum.  I have repeatedly made that distinction nuerous times and have gone out of my way to articulate the moral distinction that esists between those who struggle with homoseuxal temptation/desire in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord and those who believe their homosexual desires are natural and not sinful and have no intention of repenting for the sin in their heart.

 

 

Perhaps if you were not so hell bent on trying to trip me up in my words and assigning values to me that I don't hold to, and if you weren't so busy refuting arguments that weren't raised you might have caught what i have been saying all along.

[GoldenEagle]

Generally speaking both of you are correct. But I am dealing with specifics.  Specifically this thread and these "side b" Christians.  Ones that don't see being gay as sinful, but do find living out the gay lifestyle as sinful.

--------------

For clarification...

Do you believe that homosexuality is a sin? Yes/No

Do you believe that thinking homosexual thoughts are a sin? Yes/No

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

Truth is in what both of you say, but how do we apply it to this?  How do we dismiss these ones that may genuinely love God yet still struggle with this unnatural attraction?   

 

 

 

Ruck, we have been over this ad nauseum.  I have repeatedly made that distinction nuerous times and have gone out of my way to articulate the moral distinction that esists between those who struggle with homoseuxal temptation/desire in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord and those who believe their homosexual desires are natural and not sinful and have no intention of repenting for the sin in their heart.

 

 

Perhaps if you were not so hell bent on trying to trip me up in my words and assigning values to me that I don't hold to, and if you weren't so busy refuting arguments that weren't raised you might have caught what i have been saying all along.

 

 

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I didn't try to trip you up.  I was only going off of what you were saying.  You expressly stated that these ones were not Christians and if they were truely repentant....stuff like that.  Its right there in the first few pages.  As I said I'm dealing with specifics.  No need to get in your feelings, I'm not attacking you.  I truely only wanted to understand where you were coming from.  As I said generally I get where you are coming from, but I thought we were talking about those that were mentioned in this article.  Seems we truely were talking about two different things.  So I do apologize for jumping the gun. 

 

 

 

 

I know you are not attacking me, but I have answered the same questions over and over and i have given the same answers over and over.  And it is getting really old.  I think you are reacting to what you think I am saying and don't really read the posts very well before you post a response.  Otherwise, I would not have to keep going circles like this with you.

[Gandalf]

 

 

Generally speaking both of you are correct. But I am dealing with specifics.  Specifically this thread and these "side b" Christians.  Ones that don't see being gay as sinful, but do find living out the gay lifestyle as sinful.

--------------

For clarification...

Do you believe that homosexuality is a sin? Yes/No

Do you believe that thinking homosexual thoughts are a sin? Yes/No

 

 

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Sigh GE, while I will answer your questions this is not about what I believe, but what those that are struggling with this beleive.  More specifically those that believe that the attraction itself isn't sinful, but that living out the lifestyle is.  How is this dealt with. Do you as was said say that they are not Christians, or do we honor that they are, and trust that God will bring them freedom in the struggle with the attraction. 

Now my answer Yes.

 

 

Yes, I can agree with that. Temptation is clearly not sin; even Jesus was tempted. To be of a disposition which means you are more likely to be tempted to certain sin than others are, is also not sin, its just an effect of the fall.

[MorningGlory]

Can we please just stay with the OP on this topic?  That would be Christians who are gay but do not act upon their desire for the same sex.  All of this arguing over intent/repent/not repent is OT and irrelevant.  My original intent was to get opinions on whether God recognizes their efforts to remain His followers. 

[Gandalf]

Can we please just stay with the OP on this topic?  That would be Christians who are gay but do not act upon their desire for the same sex.  All of this arguing over intent/repent/not repent is OT and irrelevant.  My original intent was to get opinions on whether God recognizes their efforts to remain His followers. 

The simple answer can only be "yes", of course God recognizes their efforts to remain His followers, as He does with all of our feeble efforts to remain such in the face of our many failings.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Gandalf

[Littlelambseativy]

Absolutely! We are all trying to live as we should but we all fall short - they are no exception. That's why we need Jesus and His blood.