No Scripture Identifies the Time for the Rapture

[Montana Marv]

The Rapture and the 2nd Coming are two different events.

 

Yes we will rule with Christ.  Who are we and Christ going to rule over during the 1000 years?  Who are the subjects/people which need to be ruled over with a "rod of iron"?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[His Ambassador]

We will rule over all the saints.  There is no "rod of iron"  mentioned in these verses.

[Montana Marv]

Rev 19:15 - Out of His mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations.  He will rule them with an iron scepter.  Psa 2:9 - You will rule them with an iron scepter.  Rev 2:27 - He will rule them with an iron scepter.

 

Isa 2:3 - Many peoples will come and say, Come let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob.  He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.  v4 - He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples.  Zech 9:23 - In those days, ten men from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe, and day, let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.

 

This is during the 1000 reign of Christ.  WE reign with Him.  Over who do we reign, over all the languages and nations, as Christ does.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Ruthie7032]

Now back to the main point;  Scripture does not give a hint of when the Rapture will occur, for only God the Father knows, Not God the Son (Word).  If you say it is in Scripture, you make God a liar, for He is the only one who knows the time of the Rapture.  How many god the fathers do we have out here knowing the timing of the Rapture.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

I definitely agree with you, Montana Marv. 

 

 

While I agree no one can know the day and the hour, I also believe that all the verses above this one in Matthew 24 are given that we may know the season that he might return.

 

Firestormx

Joseph

 

 

Exactly, Joseph.  I agree with you as well--- so we'll know what to look for, the parable, the world shaping itself as a woman about to give birth as the pains get closer and closer together --- as with the wickedness we're seeing in the world today, escalating, earthquakes, signs in the Heavens, knowledge and travel  increased, so many signs coming together as never before.

 

I'm enjoying reading what everyone has to say on this topic, it's so interesting.  This is a great thread.

[Micheal Westin]

Lord avenge the person (scum) who just killed my son (daughter, wife, husband, mother or father).  Avenge their blood.  Be careful, for this same person (scum) may eventually become a believer in Christ.

 

What say you about having someone be given a full cup of vengeance.  Where is grace.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

I would only add that there does come a day when grace is over and God's wrath will be the only thing men will see, its a terrible thing to fall into the hands of an angry God

Edited August 29, 2013 by Micheal Westin

[JustAServant]

 

 

 

Please note, this is a COMING. Do you see it in verse 15? Now, WHEN is this coming?

 

You are about 1900 years off in your theory: PAUL taught a pretrib rapture. So it began with 1 Thes. epistle.

 

Lamad

 

Jesus' "Coming" is describes in Rev. 20 & 21.  Paul did not teach a "rapture".  The verses you quote are what those who created that theory SAY Paul was teaching. 

 

 

 

If you wish to play word games, take them somewhere else. Rapture comes from the Latin word raptura, from Latin raptus, which is a translation of the Greek verb "harpazō" from which we get  "caught up." 

 

1 Thes. 4

¹⁷ Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

 

Do you see those two words, "caught up?" That is what we call today the rapture of the bride. No worries, since you don't believe in it, God will make absolutely sure you are not one that will be caught up. YOu will be left behind to see the Beast of Rev. 13.

 

Rev. 20 & 21 search on "coming" results:

 

Revelation 20:1

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

 

Revelation 21:2

Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

There you have it. An angel coming....and the New Jerusalem coming. Seems you missed it yet again. There IS NO coming of our Lord in Rev. 20 or 21.  Let me help you, for it is very clear you need help:

 

Rev 19

¹¹ Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. ¹² His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. ¹³ He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. ¹⁴ And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

 

This is His coming. Destination? Israel, Middle East, planet earth.  He comes about 7 year previous to this, to get His bride, now here He is coming WITH His bride, and the angels.  For the posttribbers, there is no rapture here at His coming on the white horse.  It came 7 years previous.

 

Bottom line? Pretribbers can read simple English. Paul described VERY CLEARLY a catching away of the Bride of Christ. We call it the rapture of the bride. Anyone can be ready and be snatched up to meet Him in the air. On the other hand, anyone can refuse, and be left behind.  Anyone can follow Luke 21:36 and PRAY to be found worthy to excape what is coming. But sadly, many are confused, and cannot believe in the catching away of the bride. They will be left behind. Then, they will be beheaded. They will be OVERCOME by the Beast.

 

Lamad

 

Lamad, since belief in the rapture, being a pre-tribber, a post-tribber or whatever does not effect our salvation.  Be honest - We really don't KNOW!  We hope we understand the scriptures.  We try to put together the Word of Jesus, the OT scriptures of Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekial, Joel, Paul's writing and Revelation.  We are not sure.  We all have different opinions and really think we have it down pat.  It really doesn't matter that much.  We are told by Jesus to be ready!  That's where our emphasis should be.  God will take care of us.  Remember, He loves us as a parent for a child.  Jesus told us how to be ready.  WE MUST BE READY!!!

[iamlamad]

 

 

 

 

Please note, this is a COMING. Do you see it in verse 15? Now, WHEN is this coming?

 

...

 

Bottom line? Pretribbers can read simple English. Paul described VERY CLEARLY a catching away of the Bride of Christ. We call it the rapture of the bride. Anyone can be ready and be snatched up to meet Him in the air. On the other hand, anyone can refuse, and be left behind.  Anyone can follow Luke 21:36 and PRAY to be found worthy to excape what is coming. But sadly, many are confused, and cannot believe in the catching away of the bride. They will be left behind. Then, they will be beheaded. They will be OVERCOME by the Beast.

 

Lamad

 

Lamad, since belief in the rapture, being a pre-tribber, a post-tribber or whatever does not effect our salvation.  Be honest - We really don't KNOW!  We hope we understand the scriptures.  We try to put together the Word of Jesus, the OT scriptures of Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekial, Joel, Paul's writing and Revelation.  We are not sure.  We all have different opinions and really think we have it down pat.  It really doesn't matter that much.  We are told by Jesus to be ready!  That's where our emphasis should be.  God will take care of us.  Remember, He loves us as a parent for a child.  Jesus told us how to be ready.  WE MUST BE READY!!!

 

 

I think this depends on your definition of "salvation."  It certainly does not affect one's regeneration, or being born again. But if people are left behind to face the beast, it is going to be a terrible time. I think some will take the easy way out and take the mark, and be doomed.  So it certainly could affect where one spends eternity.

 

I AM honest and I DO know: Jesus is coming pretrib. Did you ever notice how SURE Paul was of his gospel? How did he get his gospel? He got it by revelation: it was revealed to him. This, if you remember, is the ROCK that the church was to be built on: revelation knowledge.  Since we are to be judged by Paul's gospel, I can understand why Jesus said that.  Some of Revelation was revealed to me, the same way the gospel was revealed to Paul: by and through the Holy Spirit. I am very sure of what was revealed. 

 

You are correct about being ready! But did you stop to think, how can someone that believes in a post trib rapture, be "ready?" Their faith will be to see the beast first. Everything we get from God we get by faith; and I am convinced (no revealed knowledge here) that the rapture will be the same: Jesus is coming pretrib for those who are WATCHING for His coming. That means those who have faith in a pretrib coming. They are the ones who will be watching with and by faith. They will be the ones caught up.

 

Lamad

[Montana Marv]

Really the post-trib message is that one has at least 7 years to get ready, or be ready; no urgency.  One can wait.

 

Rev 3:10 - Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

 

Rev 14:6 - Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth; to every nation, tribe, language and people.

 

Here we have an angel proclaiming the eternal gospel to those who live on the earth; why not the Church or Bride, for we are to proclaim the gospel to those who live on the earth.  When did this change?

 

One must consider when this hour of trial begins, which is going to come upon the whole earth.  Is it at the onset of the 70th week, or is it mid-trib, or pre-wrath.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[rollinTHUNDER]

Rev 3:10 - Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

 

 

One must consider when this hour of trial begins, which is going to come upon the whole earth.  Is it at the onset of the 70th week, or is it mid-trib, or pre-wrath.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Jesus laid it all out for us in Matthew 24 & 25.  The rapture (gathering of the elect) will be like it was in the days of Noah, before God poured out His wrath.  Of course, no one called this gathering the rapture back then, for it's a modern english term.

[other one]

Really the post-trib message is that one has at least 7 years to get ready, or be ready; no urgency.  One can wait.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

not really for we don't know if we will even live long enough to see the coming.  One can get distracted and walk in front of the garbage truck an  get squished, or more likely be run down by some drunk.   Waiting does not make any sense in this dangerous world.