Why no unity?

[enoob57]

How far outside? Are you talking in other galaxies???

[The_Patriot21]

hmmmm interesting. Ive been following this thread, and I find it interesting.  The original question is "why no unity" and after 11 pages, still no one can agree why there is no unity. I think, that right there, says it all, need this thread continue.

 

Let me point out some observations. I have observed a few self righteous comments, including one that says that they no longer sin.

 

I have also seen several other self righteous people who have basically said we have all sinned, and just because I have so have you.

 

hmmmm. and we wonder why we have no unity. On the one hand we have those who claim they don't sin anymore-that right there is arrogance, which is, actually a sin. we have others who are casting stones and flaming said poster, which probably isn't Christlike either.

 

Let me bring forth 2 key verses here.

 

Romans 3:23: for all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God.

 

We are all sinners. period.

 

and another verse, Im going to throw out there for the other side.

 

John 8:7 So when they continued asking Him, He lifted up HImself and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

 

Food for thought. perhaps its best to just let this thread die in peace, before war breaks out.

[OneWithGod]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let see if I can understand what you are trying to say. If you sin, you are following the sinful nature of our flesh, which you call Satan. When we do not sin, we are following Christ. Have you no read what Mark 3:25 says? "And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand."

 

You are correct - a house devided will eventually fall apart. So, this is why a person must give up all their love and control to Christ and not keep in bondage to any sin. Until a person is fully transformed and/or converted, they will have two masters. A person must stop stradling the spiritual fence. Until they do, they are considered of the devil, because they are still not letting go of some of their sinful nature.

 

Tell us, are you sinless, perfect in all your ways?

 

I no longer live, but only Christ in me lives. So why would I sin? All desire to sin has been removed from me. I could make mistakes out of a lack of knowledge of God's will on something, but a born again Christian will never sin against the already known will of God.

 

I think the big question I would like to ask you - can you believe what I am claiming and do you want it for yourself?

 

That, my friend, is a gnostic belief.  You are still in the flesh and are subject to the desires of the flesh, even if you don't act upon them to bring about the full sin,lust, anger, envy, and many other evil desires still are in us,  There is only one who is perfect and He is not you, even though He lives inside you.

 

I will take that as a big no to whether you would like to be free of all your sin or think God would do it in you. So, since you lack the faith, you will stay in bondage to your sin.

 

Thanks for the discussion anyway. There is always hope in the Lord until they say no to Him.

 

Shakes head at your assumptions. God has taking so much sin out of my life I can't even begin to count them all. I have not always been a follower of Christ, but just the opposite, so your assumptions are just that. You should stop assuming ... you know what that makes you.

Allow me to ask again. Are you are sinless today, perfect like Christ, never sinning?

 

From the point of being filled with the Spirit of Truth, I have not willfully/knowing sinned against God - by the power of God that has taken over my life. This has been for about 6-7 years now. This is the power of Christ when a person is fully in Christ and Christ is fully in them.

 

To be without sin is a goal one strives for in this life as they allow the Holy Spirit to change them into the likeness of Jesus. This is not done instantly, as you imply. Nobody in scripture ever claimed to be without sin. There is only one who is said to be without sin, and that is Jesus. Scripture encourages us to live a life of holiness, as He is Holy, yet, while we are still in the flesh, we have to work daily to carry our cross, to be like Him. Consider this, if we were without sin, the Holy Spirit would not be needed.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is nobody perfect but one, Jesus.

 

Anyone fully "born of God" does not sin any longer.

 

1 John 3:9 - Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.   NKJV

 

1 John 5:18 - We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.  NKJV

 

When a person becomes fully born of God, their sinful nature is dead and they sin no more. If someone refuses to believe this, then their goal of becoming sinless is in vain, because they are refusing to believe God's Truth in these matters.

 

 

Funny how you leave out the verse that doesn't agree with you.

 

1 John 1:8

 

 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

Just don't take this verse out of context - read on right after that.

 

1 John 1:8 is describing a person without Christ. It is indicating that everybody is with sin from birth and that is why everyone needs Jesus Christ power to clense them from all sin - this is what the very next verse is about. Anyone can turn God's Truth into a lie if they take it out of context like you just did.

 

1 John 1:9-10 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.   NIV

 

If a sinner in verse 8 truly does what is in verse 9, they will be clensed of ALL sin and will not sin any longer.

 

If you desire to have the belief to stay a sinner, than that is your choice. God gives everyone this choice - to stay a sinner or have a full faith in Christ and become righteous and holy as God is righteous and holy - and not sin.

 

 

By saying you have no sin in you, you are saying you are equal to Christ. You are saying you are in every way equal to the Lord of Lord and Kings of Kings. There is only one that is sinless and that is not you.

 

Either you have sin in you or you think you are God? Which is it?

 

Your last statement is a foolish statement. If I say I am dead and only Christ remains in me, how can I claim to be equal with Christ when I am dead?

Edited August 31, 2013 by OneWithGod

[OneWithGod]

Romans 3:23: for all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God.

 

This statement is true, because it is past tense. When a person is truly born of God, they no longer sin going forward in time, even though they have sinned in their past.

[enoob57]

 If I say I am dead and only Christ remains in me, how can I claim to be equal with Christ when I am dead?

 

 In the future we will realize sinlessness in the new body.... but now we are at war with our flesh Rom 7 and those

who walk in the light of His Truth know we have desires we do not want and actions that we repent of -all- this keeps

us broken of spirit and contrite of heart as a mark of Christ's Life before us that we press toward yet not arriving!  

Phil 3:12-14

12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ

Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting

those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the

prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

NKJV

You can understand our concern for you as the greatest missionary of all times had not arrived at the place you claim

for yourself to have arrived at!

Love, Steven

[OneWithGod]

 

 If I say I am dead and only Christ remains in me, how can I claim to be equal with Christ when I am dead?

 

 In the future we will realize sinlessness in the new body.... but now we are at war with our flesh Rom 7 and those

who walk in the light of His Truth know we have desires we do not want and actions that we repent of -all- this keeps

us broken of spirit and contrite of heart as a mark of Christ's Life before us that we press toward yet not arriving!  

Phil 3:12-14

12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ

Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting

those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the

prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

NKJV

You can understand our concern for you as the greatest missionary of all times had not arrived at the place you claim

for yourself to have arrived at!

Love, Steven

 

Romans 7 is describing a person that is not spiritual (verse 14) - not a born again believer. A born again believe is filled with the Holy Spirit and does not knowingly sin - so they have been made perfect in God's love. A born again person is not a slave to sin, but a slave to God's righteousness.

 

Rom 7:14 - We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.  NIV

 

Paul had not attained the resurrecton from the dead, because he did not physically die yet, but Paul was perfect in Christ's love, holiness, righteousness, and obedience while he was ministering on this earth.

 

Phil 3:15 - Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.  KJV

 

Perfection in God's love and all our fruit is possible in this life, just like Paul's obedience to the Lord while he was alive on earth.

 

Edited August 31, 2013 by OneWithGod

[enoob57]

With all the family of God I have fellowshipped with- the truly born again- fight the sin their bodies desire....ALL!....

the fact you claim sinless perfection while in this body like the rest of us leads me to believe you are in grave

danger of this verse

1 John 1:6-10
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if

we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His

Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is

faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not

sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
NKJV

John talking to saints to guard against this very deception you are promoting- You are without sin in this body-!

Love, Steven

[firestormx]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let see if I can understand what you are trying to say. If you sin, you are following the sinful nature of our flesh, which you call Satan. When we do not sin, we are following Christ. Have you no read what Mark 3:25 says? "And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand."

 

You are correct - a house devided will eventually fall apart. So, this is why a person must give up all their love and control to Christ and not keep in bondage to any sin. Until a person is fully transformed and/or converted, they will have two masters. A person must stop stradling the spiritual fence. Until they do, they are considered of the devil, because they are still not letting go of some of their sinful nature.

 

Tell us, are you sinless, perfect in all your ways?

 

I no longer live, but only Christ in me lives. So why would I sin? All desire to sin has been removed from me. I could make mistakes out of a lack of knowledge of God's will on something, but a born again Christian will never sin against the already known will of God.

 

I think the big question I would like to ask you - can you believe what I am claiming and do you want it for yourself?

 

That, my friend, is a gnostic belief.  You are still in the flesh and are subject to the desires of the flesh, even if you don't act upon them to bring about the full sin,lust, anger, envy, and many other evil desires still are in us,  There is only one who is perfect and He is not you, even though He lives inside you.

 

I will take that as a big no to whether you would like to be free of all your sin or think God would do it in you. So, since you lack the faith, you will stay in bondage to your sin.

 

Thanks for the discussion anyway. There is always hope in the Lord until they say no to Him.

 

Shakes head at your assumptions. God has taking so much sin out of my life I can't even begin to count them all. I have not always been a follower of Christ, but just the opposite, so your assumptions are just that. You should stop assuming ... you know what that makes you.

Allow me to ask again. Are you are sinless today, perfect like Christ, never sinning?

 

From the point of being filled with the Spirit of Truth, I have not willfully/knowing sinned against God - by the power of God that has taken over my life. This has been for about 6-7 years now. This is the power of Christ when a person is fully in Christ and Christ is fully in them.

 

To be without sin is a goal one strives for in this life as they allow the Holy Spirit to change them into the likeness of Jesus. This is not done instantly, as you imply. Nobody in scripture ever claimed to be without sin. There is only one who is said to be without sin, and that is Jesus. Scripture encourages us to live a life of holiness, as He is Holy, yet, while we are still in the flesh, we have to work daily to carry our cross, to be like Him. Consider this, if we were without sin, the Holy Spirit would not be needed.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is nobody perfect but one, Jesus.

 

Anyone fully "born of God" does not sin any longer.

 

1 John 3:9 - Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.   NKJV

 

1 John 5:18 - We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.  NKJV

 

When a person becomes fully born of God, their sinful nature is dead and they sin no more. If someone refuses to believe this, then their goal of becoming sinless is in vain, because they are refusing to believe God's Truth in these matters.

 

 

Funny how you leave out the verse that doesn't agree with you.

 

1 John 1:8

 

 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

Just don't take this verse out of context - read on right after that.

 

1 John 1:8 is describing a person without Christ. It is indicating that everybody is with sin from birth and that is why everyone needs Jesus Christ power to clense them from all sin - this is what the very next verse is about. Anyone can turn God's Truth into a lie if they take it out of context like you just did.

 

1 John 1:9-10 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.   NIV

 

If a sinner in verse 8 truly does what is in verse 9, they will be clensed of ALL sin and will not sin any longer.

 

If you desire to have the belief to stay a sinner, than that is your choice. God gives everyone this choice - to stay a sinner or have a full faith in Christ and become righteous and holy as God is righteous and holy - and not sin.

 

 

By saying you have no sin in you, you are saying you are equal to Christ. You are saying you are in every way equal to the Lord of Lord and Kings of Kings. There is only one that is sinless and that is not you.

 

Either you have sin in you or you think you are God? Which is it?

 

Your last statement is a foolish statement. If I say I am dead and only Christ remains in me, how can I claim to be equal with Christ when I am dead?

 

I will pray for you, that your eyes will be opened to foolish deception you appear to have fallen for, and you may see God's truth. For no body is sinless expect Christ.

[OneWithGod]

I will pray for you, that your eyes will be opened to the foolish deception you appear to have fallen for, and that you may see God's truth. For no body is sinless expect Christ.

 

Exactly - No one is sinless except Christ, but Christ is the only One living in me, so as a result I don't sin any longer.

 

 

I will pray for you too - that your eyes will be opened and have more faith in Christ and His promises, but right now you are being deceived by the devil's lies, which are keeping you in bondage to sin and your own selfishness/evil.

[OneLight]

That is not true at all, in fact, it is impossible.  The teaching of putting off the old man will never be complete until we have died and gone to be with Christ, for we still live in the flesh.  You are taking a metaphorical ideal we get from scripture and are claiming it to be attainable.  Do you still eat?  Sleep?  Then the flesh is still alive and well.  We are to bear that cross daily, doing our best to follo wHis leading.

 

When we accepted Christ as our Savior, we did not become a program in the master computer where we lost all ability to think or choose.  The idea is to seek to be Christ like and to follow His will, but it never states that we loose the old man.  If that is the case, scripture would not keep referring to the battles we have with out natural desires, the flesh.  That is the old man we are to turn from. When we grow in Him and become more like Him, then we are less of the old man.