is christmas based on pagan underpinnings?

[Guest shiloh357]

I was listening to a missionary to Japan explain that from a missionary's perspective, when you are in a culture that has pagan holidays, those whom you reach for Jesus, if they don't have something to replace their former pagan cultural holidays with, will revert back to those cutlural celebrations because it is all they know.

 

Often, he said, missionaries will find ways to help former pagans who have converted to Christ to have Christian holidays on the same day as the pagan holidays as a means of giving them something they can do to honor Jesus on the same days that they were accustomed to.   The idea isn't that they are talking what is pagan and offering it to God, but they are simply taking advantage of a holiday system that is already entrenched in the culture and using it as a vehicle to keep those new believers from reverting back to pagan celebrations.

 

It is likely that the early Christians were doing the same thing. They were not trying to paganize anything, but they were trying to find ways to honor God in the midst of pagan culture.  They worked with that they had to work with.  They had celebrations that occurred on the same day because that is the time that everyone celebrated and it made sense to offer Christian holidays on those same dates.   They were not mixing paganism and Jesus.  They were simply taking advantage of the opportunities.  If they had Christian holidays on other dates, the new Christians would have still gone to Saturnalia events in addition to the Christian holidays.   The idea was to lessen the number of Christians engaging in paganism as much as possible.

[WillfromTexas]

Setting aside one day for the birth of our Lord only seems right.  Christmas generally brings closer to God by reminding the world of Christ's birth.  Christmas and Easter are two days when people will goto church that normally wouldn't.  Maybe that one visit on Christmas was what led them to salvation and going to church more often.

 

It's strange to bring up Cain.  The reason God didn't accept his offering was because it wasn't his best and his heart wasn't in the sacrifice.  Then he killed his brother so you know...

 

If we as Christians fall for Satan's trap and surrender Christmas to the pagans then they've just chalked up another holiday for themselves.  This is Christ's birth!  The angels in Heaven rejoiced!  It isn't about the specific date but that we set aside a day to celebrate our Lord.

 

One of my favorite religious songs is actually a Christmas song.  Well many Christmas songs...  Do you hear what I hear- if you just listen to the lyrics they are very moving.  They make me feel closer to God and they move me.

 

Christmas for me is about Jesus and family- it brings me closer to both.  How can something that brings me closer to what God wants be satanic?

 

Said the night wind to the little lamb
Do you see what I see
Way up in the sky little lamb
Do you see what I see
A star, a star
Dancing in the night
With a tail as big as a kite
With a tail as big as a kite

Said the little lamb to the shepard boy
Do you hear what I hear
Ringing through the sky shepard boy
Do you hear what I hear
A song, a song
High above the tree
With a voice as big as the sea
With a voice as big as the sea

Said the shepard boy to the mighty king
Do you know what I know
In your palace wall mighty king
Do you know what I know
A child, a child
Shivers in the cold
Let us bring him silver and gold
Let us bring him silver and gold

Said the king to the people everywhere
Listen to what I say
Pray for peace people everywhere
Listen to what I say
The child, the child
Sleeping in the night
He will bring us goodness and light
He will bring us goodness and light

The child, the child
Sleeping in the night
He will bring us goodness and light
 

[Sevenseas]

Not the Christmas I celebrate.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Should Christian's Celebrate Christmas?

This is a very difficult and controversial subject. Most people that celebrate Christmas really don't know much about its origins. They only know that it is a long running tradition that has been passed down to them for many generations. But Christians are not the only ones celebrating this holiday, for pagans and atheists celebrate it as well. Many have even removed Christ' name from it altogether (X-mas). Still others get offended every year and demand that we should keep Christ in Christmas. The question is, was Christ really ever in Christmas to begin with?

There are no records of any Christmas celebrations at all in the first century. In fact, it wasn't until after Constantine became the Emperor of Rome in the fourth century that this pagan holiday first began. Constantine converted to Christianity, but then he wrongly attempted to force every Roman citizen to believe in Christ as well. Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. It was during this time that Christmas first came into existence, as they mingled the birth of Christ with the pagan celebration of the winter solstice. This was done in order to convert pagans to Christianity.

No doubt, there are some very strange things associated with this holiday, drunken orgies, kissing under mistletoes, etc., etc... Have you ever wondered what the meaning was behind the twelve days of Christmas? And how about that fat man in the red suit that always generates so much excitement? If Christmas was really about the birth of Christ, then why do Christians let Santa Claus steal His glory? Would Jesus approve of His followers lying to their children about this mythical Santa Claus? The apostle Paul warned long ago that the time would come when men would no longer endure sound doctrine, but would instead, surround themselves with teachers who would turn away from the truth and tickle ears with fables or myths (2 Tim. 4:3-4).

I'm definitely not going to be very popular for saying this, but believers have been duped by the ancient Roman culture and their pagan rituals. The truth is that the Romans temporarily hijacked the Church, which led the world into the dark ages. That's right, they crucified our Lord and martyred most of His disciples. They took control over God's Word for some time, added false doctrine and used it politically to gain power over the masses. Then later came the Holy Roman Empire and the Papacy. But thank God John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Calvin and others eventually challenged the false teachings within the Roman Catholic Church, which had became a powerful tool of the Roman government! It is because of these brave Protestant reformers that believers everywhere can now read the Gospel for themselves today. You see, most Roman citizens did not have this luxury then, so most Roman's were easily deceived. But we can no longer use that excuse today, because God's Word has been translated in many languages for one and all.

Sadly, still to this day, Pastors and Bible teachers keep opening their Bibles and preaching the Christmas story, when the word Christmas is nowhere to be found in the Bible. Yes, there was a virgin birth of Christ, but Christ did not leave heaven and come to earth so that men would celebrate His birth. No, God had a much greater purpose in mind. He sent His Son to die for the sins of the world, as the unblemished Lamb of God. That was His one and only purpose for coming into this dark world, to redeem fallen mankind back to God. God requires blood for the forgiveness of sin, so He sent His only begotten Son into the world to become a sinless man to die for the sins of the world. Only the Holy Spirit could impregnate Mary, because the seed of man was corrupted some 4000 years earlier in the garden of Eden. Therefore, the Son of God was also the Son of man, was sinless and died as the ultimate sacrifice and the Lamb of God.

The account of His birth was never meant to be a cute little story corrupted with pagan idolatry. It was only meant to show the fulfillment of the prophecies that were written hundreds of years before, about the coming Messiah and Savior of the world. That's how we know that Christ, and Christ alone, was the only one that fulfilled all of these prophecies. Furthermore, no one really knows the actual date that Christ was born. That was no accident and I believe that is exactly the way God wants it. What fellowship does darkness have with light?

If we were supposed to celebrate Christmas, then why didn't any of Christ's disciples do it? After all, they wrote the New Testament some 30, 40 and even 50 years after Christ ascended back to heaven, but not a single word was mentioned about Christmas. Moreover, Christ said that there is only one thing that we should do in remembrance of Him, and that one thing is the Lord's supper (1 Cor. 11:23-26). And finally, when He does return, everyone will honor Him every year at the feast of tabernacles (Zech. 14:16-19). There will be no Christmas then, nor is Christmas a biblical holiday now. It should also be noted that Christmas was illegal in America until 1820.

Jeremiah 10:2-5
Thus says the Lord: Do not learn the way of the nations, or be dismayed at the signs of the heavens; for the nations are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are false: a tree from the forest is cut down, and worked with an ax by the hands of an artisan; 4 people deck it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move. 5 Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field, and they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk.

Please understand that I have no intentions of condemning anyone that celebrates this holiday, but I thought that you might want to know the truth. Since it is the truth that sets us free, shame on me if I should fail to share it, especially since I have been called to and love studying Bible prophecy. Now you are free to do your own investigation in this matter.

[Sevenseas]

bah humbug

 

 

What makes you think you know the truth and those who celebrate Christmas, or the birth of Christ do not know the truth?

 

And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. 11Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”

13Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,

14“Glory to God in the highest heaven,

and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”

15When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let’s go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.”

 

That's what Christians celebrate at Christmas.  We can't help what the rest of the world does, we can only testify about what we believe.

 

Santa bashing if you want to do it, is fine; but maybe checking out those origins as well would be interesting.   Bashing everything Christmas is well, like throwing the baby out with the bathwater

if you don't me using a time worn analogy.

 

Christmas comes from the Olde English(e) meaning Christ's Mass to commemorate the birth of Christ...there were other names for Christmas as well (Wiki and other sources)

 

Christmas is not a pagan holiday.  We celebrate Easter...the death and resurrection of Christ as well...as there are certain fertility rites associated with that (the egg being a symbol of such) should we

also slam shut our Bibles on that one...the word Easter is not in the Bible either.

 

There are many words we use in our Christian vocabularies that are not found specifically in the Bible.  Many words period.  And we do not live as they did 2000 years ago either.

However, mankind is still the same and we know what Christmas means....it's not like some word has been coined that is derogatory.

 

 

 

Yes, there was a virgin birth of Christ, but He did not leave heaven and come to earth so that men would worship His birth. No, He came to die for the sins of the world as the Lamb of God. That was His one and only purpose for coming into this dark world. His birth was never meant to be a cute little story. It was meant to show the fulfillment of the prophecies that were written hundreds of years before about the coming Messiah and Savior of the world, not a mythical Christmas story.

 

Well you are wrong.  Dying was not His only purpose.  How about this: And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.  I John 5:20

 

And yes, His death and resurrection allowed that to happen for those who accept Him...but the purpose in that is a joyous one for God our Father because we are reunited with Him and can come

once again into His presence.  

 

The angels sang and glorified God at the birth of Christ...in case you have missed it, the wise men followed a star that appeared to shine  for the birth of Christ...so there are 2 birth

announcements right there.  And you know what?  I'm pretty sure the angels still rejoice at God's plan manifested in the birth of His Son and it is not a sin nor is it pagan for us to do the same.

 

 

 

 

As I said, this won't be popular, but I thought that you should know the truth. 

 

Well, quite honestly, the POV of those who celebrate the birth of Christ is not popular with the Christmas is pagan crowd either.  The Jehovah Witnesses are on board with you though.

 

 

 

If we were supposed to celebrate Christmas, then why didn't any of Christ's disciples do it?

 

 

How about Passover and all the other Jewish celebrations?  God Himself instituted those so apparently, He just could be OK with Christmas...God wants us to REMEMBER what He does....

that is what I choose to do and so do Christians all over the world.

 

If you are convicted about Christmas then I suppose it would be wrong for you to celebrate it.  There is no admonition in scripture against celebrating anything to do with Christ

or the birth the angels celebrated however, so you might be a tad lonely in your pursuit of your personal interpretation of this event.

[Guest Butero]

what do you guys thinK?

Some claim it is because pagans celebrated their own holiday on December 25.  The Christmas celebration we have is nothing close to what the pagans used to celebrate. 

[missmuffet]

Bells,candles,holly,and yuletide decorations are mentioned in the history of pagan worship but the use in ones home does not indicate a return to paganism.Their are roots to some traditions,there are many more associated with the true meaning of Christmas-the birth of the Savior of the world in Bethlehem.Another argument against Christmas,especially having a Christmas tree,is that the Bible forbids bringing trees into our homes and decorating them.The passage is Jeremiah 10:1-16,but this passage refers to cutting down trees,chiseling the wood to make an idol and then decorating the idol with silver,gold for the purpose of worship.

Some Christians say that since the world celebrates Christmas-although it is becoming more and more-Politically correct to refer to it as "the holidays", Christians should avoid it.But that is the same argument made by false religions that deny Christ such as the Jehovah's Witnesses.Their is no scriptural reason not to celebrate Christmas.It is a personal choice.

[OakWood]

Whenever I ask myself 'should Christians celebrate Christmas?', I look around at the World and see what is happening.

Everybody who hates Christianity seems to hate Christmas. Islamists despise it and everything that goes with it. They want to destroy it, ban people from celebrating it, and even stop people from saying 'Merry Christmas.'

Atheists hate it. They want to keep the festival but rename it something else such as Winter holiday or something like that.

 

All of the above makes me think that Christmas is something special. If it truly was pagan then why would Satan and his followers hate it so much?

 

I like all aspects of Christmas, even Santa and the Christmas tree. There is nothing wrong with that as long as we keep our focus on God.

And what's more, every year - be it on TV or elsewhere, we're always reminded at least once about Jesus. Once may not be good enough but its better than nothing. If that one reminder is enough to bring lapsed Christians back into the fold, then it's all worthwhile. Plus it gets children asking questions. Even children brought up by Atheist parents will hear about Christmas and start to ask questions about it. Christmas is the one time of year when even Atheists can't avoid Jesus altogether!

 

I'm reminded of the Christmas Day truces during World War I where British and German soldiers stopped fighting, climbed out of the trenches and played soccer together. That one single day made them all remember Christ's message 'Love Thine Enemy'.

 

Christmas is nothing for any Christian to be ashamed of.

[GoldenEagle]

Wow the Christmas is evil thread came late this year.... Lol

[Guest shiloh357]

Wow the Christmas is evil thread came late this year.... Lol

Well, the folks that used to be on here who promoted the  issue didn't come back this year.  Otherwise we would have been in this discussion back at the end of September.