Tongues Evidence?

[donfish06]

Paul says "that no man understands" (1 Corinthians 14:2)! How many is none? Is there a human language that no man understands? There are two kinds of tongues manifestations in the Bible. The first in Acts 2 (like in Acts 10) is when the speaker speaks in his own language (in Peter's case Aramaic/Hebrew) and everyone hears in their own language (Parthian, Greek, etc.,), the second is this which Paul referred to (not a known human language)...also see Acts 10:46 and Acts 19:6...

 

Please read my question closer. I asked for a specific instance when someone spoke in unknown tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost. I didn't say that the words "unknown tongues" did not appear in the bible. My point was to go on to show that tongues is not the evidence of the Holy Spirit.

 

I need to say something and I hope sincerely it doesn't come across as being puffed up.......    but it has been my lot in life for a number of years to intercede for people in instances of extreme conditions....   some physical some spiritual some just down right dumb.    I've been awaken in the middle of the night knowing I was praying for someone, but words just didn't come out when I did.  It was difficult at first but not so much now.

 

It bothered me for a long time until I called someone to make sure they were alright and found they were about to make a very bad decision that would have really messed with their future.....   but the thing about it was that what they were doing was very very personal and really none of my business.

 

Sometimes I think that God has people who pray for others in unknown tongues just because it's private.......   I have no earthly idea as to why it needs to be done, but then again why should we need to pray for anyone for God knows what we all need.   I don't understand the need for praying for others, but I know we do.

 

And I am not saying that unknown tongues is wrong... but like Paul said and like what it sounds like in your case is that it is personal. It's not meant to be in front of everybody all the time because it is not edifying unless someone can interpret. I have never spoke in tongues in prayer but I would love too. But my whole point of the thread wasn't to say that speaking in tongues is wrong, but that it is not the evidence of the Holy Spirit. I have a relative who believes that tongues is the evidence and he has yet to speak in them yet, so he believes that he is not saved. Before he was a Christian he was always getting into bar fights and getting drunk and those things plus much more God has delivered him from and he truly loves the Lord. It hurts me so much to see him searching for tongues, believing that he is not yet saved. That is why I started this thread.

[Butch5]

What do you mean by unknown. The speaking of tongues was of known languages. They likely weren't known to the speaker but they were real languages spoken by people.

[other one]

What do you mean by unknown. The speaking of tongues was of known languages. They likely weren't known to the speaker but they were real languages spoken by people.

 

I would disagree with that.......   what language could I possibly speak that people could hear me in German, French, English and Chinese all at the same time.

 

We have no idea of what actually came out of their mouths,

[Guest ninhao]

Actually it seems just about any spiritual gift can be divisive.  I simply believe what the Bible says and try not to get involved in all the speculation and trying to figure out what is going on.

 

One of the key instructions to practicing any gift in public, is to do so in an orderly manner....so if people act otherwise, they are not following scripture.

 

 

Hear hear !

 

1Co 14:30-33  And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop.  (31)  For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.  (32)  The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets.  (33)  For God is not a God of disorder but of peace--as in all the congregations of the Lord's people.

 

[Butch5]

 

What do you mean by unknown. The speaking of tongues was of known languages. They likely weren't known to the speaker but they were real languages spoken by people.

 

I would disagree with that.......   what language could I possibly speak that people could hear me in German, French, English and Chinese all at the same time.

 

We have no idea of what actually came out of their mouths,

 

It's not speaking you speaking in a language. It's the gift that was given in the early church. We do know what languages were spoken because in Act 2 it says we all here them in our own tongue.

 

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (Act 2:4-11 KJV)

 

These were known languages.

[Guest ninhao]

 

It's not speaking you speaking in a language. It's the gift that was given in the early church. We do know what languages were spoken because in Act 2 it says we all here them in our own tongue.

 

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (Act 2:4-11 KJV)

 

These were known languages.

 

 

Butch5 I think the point Other One is making is this. The foreigners heard their own language come from the mouth of the same person ie. each speaker spoke a language able to be understood by everyone.

 

Act 2:8  And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

 

 

Interesting; I'm not sure if I agree with this but it would be quite amazing if the different languages were understood from one "language" don't you think.  Hmm I wonder if this is phonetically possible.

[other one]

 

 

What do you mean by unknown. The speaking of tongues was of known languages. They likely weren't known to the speaker but they were real languages spoken by people.

 

I would disagree with that.......   what language could I possibly speak that people could hear me in German, French, English and Chinese all at the same time.

 

We have no idea of what actually came out of their mouths,

 

It's not speaking you speaking in a language. It's the gift that was given in the early church. We do know what languages were spoken because in Act 2 it says we all here them in our own tongue.

 

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (Act 2:4-11 KJV)

 

These were known languages.

 

Yes, but was the miracle the speaking or the hearing....  God seemed to make the people able to hear what was being spoken in their native language....  So was Peter actually speaking seven languages at once or did the lord touch the ears of those listening.....     although I don't think it really matters in the long run, but it's something to wake up in the middle of the night to ponder.

[other one]

 

 

It's not speaking you speaking in a language. It's the gift that was given in the early church. We do know what languages were spoken because in Act 2 it says we all here them in our own tongue.

 

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (Act 2:4-11 KJV)

 

These were known languages.

 

 

Butch5 I think the point Other One is making is this. The foreigners heard their own language come from the mouth of the same person ie. each speaker spoke a language able to be understood by everyone.

 

Act 2:8  And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

 

 

Interesting; I'm not sure if I agree with this but it would be quite amazing if the different languages were understood from one "language" don't you think.  Hmm I wonder if this is phonetically possible.

 

I can tell you that people multiplex reverse speech with their normal voice all the time when they get excited....   so it might be possible to speak more than one language at a time   That's something to ponder.

[Guest ninhao]

I can tell you that people multiplex reverse speech with their normal voice all the time when they get excited....   so it might be possible to speak more than one language at a time   That's something to ponder.

 

 

Yes very interesting !

[Reformed Baptist]

 

 

Where in the Bible is it recorded that anyone spoke in unknown tongues upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

 

What do you mean by 'unknown' do you mean unknown to the speaker, ie other human language that are in use elsewhere in the world, or do you mean unknown tongues to all who are present, or are you referring to heavenly languages that do not actually correspond to any human language. 

 

it may be interesting to note that the Greek language had a perfectly good word that was well used to describe the ecstatic utterances that were part of Greek temple worship, but Pauland Luke  never once use it, instead they refer to a words whose meaning is in relation to human languages -  γλῶσσα and ἑτερόγλωσσος in such discusions

 

 

Paul says "that no man understands" (1 Corinthians 14:2)! How many is none? Is there a human language that no man understands? 

 

Seriously......If my house is burning down and I say "everyone out" - do i mean everyone who is present or everyone in the whole world who has ever lived or ever will live? Or when a teacher goes home and admits to her husband, 'no one understood the lesson today' how does her husband understand the term 'no one' is he thinking in terms of everyone who have ever existed, or is he thinking in terms of his wife's class ?Language is dynamic my friend, and clearly from the context Paul is referring to those present in the worship service that he is talking about. This is made especially clear when we see that Paul uses a word that means 'human tongue' and does not use a perfectly good word that means 'heavenly tongue' (see my other posts) to describe the language being spoken. 

 

 

There are two kinds of tongues manifestations in the Bible. The first in Acts 2 (like in Acts 10) is when the speaker speaks in his own language (in Peter's case Aramaic/Hebrew) and everyone hears in their own language (Parthian, Greek, etc.,), the second is this which Paul referred to (not a known human language)...also see Acts 10:46 and Acts 19:6...

 

Firstly, which 'kind' of tongues is Acts 10, you list it under both categories? 

 

Secondly, can you show me where we are told in Acts 2 that the speakers were speaking in their own languages please? 

 

Thirdly Can you show me where the Bible tells us that Acts 10:46 and Acts 19:6 are a different expression of tongues to that detailed in Acts 2. Wouldn't it follow that the first manifestation of this 'different' gift would also be detailed for us so that we might properly understand? Also, why does Luke not use the term φθέγγομαι which his readers would have immediately recognized, and instead why does he use a term that would confuse his readers - remember he is writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and our God is not a God of confusion, but of order. 

 

It seems to me my friend, that in Acts 2 the congregation (possibly 120 strong) spoke in the tongues people heard and understood. It also seems certain that every other example of tongue speaking was the same, and furthermore it was this same gift Paul addresses in 1 Cor 12-14, a gift we specifically says was given as a sign to the unbelieving Jews, that the word of God was being proclaimed in languages not their own, 1 Cor 14:21.