OEC and The New Heavens and New Earth

[traveller]

"I also used to think this was a reference to the one mentioned in Revelation, but I have since found that to be a mistake."

 

(been so long I forgot how to quote.

 

I'd like to see more on this. Maybe a new thread?

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Shiloh....

      I am  really hysterical with your last post.....but it really is true,there are times that I don't particularly care for the way you may answer & think it a bit harsh but I suppose thats just because it is different from my approach,,,,,,,,,,,,regardless,you said the truth,,,,,people need to just produce Biblical,Scriptoral evidence that is in contrast to something you state as a fact.............they cannot,so they stomp their feet & call you a meanie...LOL

     Anyway,sorry I went  off topic but I could not resist-LOL     Anyway ,no where in scripture have I ever read where man would have been eternal had he not eaten of the forbidden fruit but it is pretty obvious to me that the world is corruptable & will go back to the incorruptable state that it was in before the fall when we have the new heavens & the new earth....isn't God telling us that he will give us what He intended for us before we messed it up& what we did have in the Garden?

                                                                                                                      With Love,in Christ-Kwik

[Guest]

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 1 Peter 5:5

 

~

 

Chaggiga 13b-14a states that there were 974 generations before God created Adam.

 

Some midrashim state that the "first week" of Creation lasted for extremely long periods of time.

 

See Anafim on Rabbenu Bachya's Sefer Ikkarim 2:18; Midrash Bereshit Rabbah 9.

 

 

God

 

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 4:2

 

States

 

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
 

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
 

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11

 

He Is

 

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

 

The Rabbi

 

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. Matthew 23:8-10

 

So Dear Sister Just Whom Will You Believe?

 

Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(c )

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Daughter Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[OldSchool2]

I have never thought of Genesis 1-3 as a parable.

Well, then what do you think of it as?

God telling us the story of how the earth was recreated (my belief) and the first man created in Gods image. No parable, just the facts.

Just curious here OS, Why dont you see this literally?

Well, if it was meant as literal history, why is the fall of mankind not referenced in any other book of the Old Testament? And, as I posted to LookingForAnswers, a parable doesn't need to account for every aspect of the narrative, e.g., "why would an immortal being need a Tree of Life?" All it needs is the moral of the story.

Also, unlike Shiloh, I don't have to jump through hermeneutic hoops to resolve other events relative to the fall of man.

It reads like a parable, a parable that is literally fleshed-out in the opening of John's Gospel.

[anthonyjmcgirr]

I'm still waiting for that Holy Grail of scripture that says Adam was meant to be eternal on earth. 

Edited February 11, 2014 by anthonyjmcgirr

[Spock]

I have never thought of Genesis 1-3 as a parable.

Well, then what do you think of it as?

God telling us the story of how the earth was recreated (my belief) and the first man created in Gods image. No parable, just the facts.Just curious here OS, Why dont you see this literally?

Well, if it was meant as literal history, why is the fall of mankind not referenced in any other book of the Old Testament? And, as I posted to LookingForAnswers, a parable doesn't need to account for every aspect of the narrative, e.g., "why would an immortal being need a Tree of Life?" All it needs is the moral of the story.Also, unlike Shiloh, I don't have to jump through hermeneutic hoops to resolve other events relative to the fall of man.It reads like a parable, a parable that is literally fleshed-out in the opening of John's Gospel.

A parable is a story, fictional, making a point.

Since Adam is referenced in the New Testament even by Jesus and Paul, then that settles that for me-he is a real person, no story at all.

In fact, paul says he was the first man, and that all died because of one mans sin-Adam. Does that sound like a fictional story?

Read this 5th chapter in Romans and tell me what you think-

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ

12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

I have never thought of Genesis 1-3 as a parable.

Well, then what do you think of it as?

 

God telling us the story of how the earth was recreated (my belief) and the first man created in Gods image. No parable, just the facts.

Just curious here OS, Why dont you see this literally?

 

Well, if it was meant as literal history, why is the fall of mankind not referenced in any other book of the Old Testament?

 

The fall of man is referenced more than once in the New Testament and is treated as literal history.  Why would it matter if it were referenced in the Old Testament.  The fact that the NT treats it as literal history is good enough.

 

If it were not literal history, why is Adam listed in Jesus' genealogy in Luke 3:38???

 

And, as I posted to LookingForAnswers, a parable doesn't need to account for every aspect of the narrative, e.g., "why would an immortal being need a Tree of Life?" All it needs is the moral of the story.

The problem with it being a parable is that Genesis 1-3 contain too many details for it to be parabolic.  Secondly, the Bible doesn't treat it like a parable.  The Bible treats it as literal history.   The onus is on you to provide the literary indicators that show it is a parable.  Since you are making a textual argument, it is up to you to provide the textual indicators that it is a parable. The literary genre is clearly a historical narrative, which proves that your view is based on nothing but your imagination and has no basis in fact or reality.

 

 

Also, unlike Shiloh, I don't have to jump through hermeneutic hoops to resolve other events relative to the fall of man.

I am not the one jumping through hoops.  I have plenty of textual evidence that puts to bed any claim that Genesis 1-3 is a parable or an allegory or a fable by Aesop.  All you have is a liberal imagination.   It is your assertion  that Genesi 1-3 is a parable that is the true work of fiction.

 

 

It reads like a parable, a parable that is literally fleshed-out in the opening of John's Gospel.

 

That is complete and utter nonsense. 

[Guest shiloh357]

I'm still waiting for that Holy Grail of scripture that says Adam was meant to be eternal on earth. 

He had the life of God within Him.  The Bible teaches that Adam was separated from God when He sinned.   So, he had God's life, which is eternal life in Him, which indicates that He was created to be an eternal being.  He lost eternal life when He disobeyed God. 

[anthonyjmcgirr]

Well I have the same in me now. When I became a Christian and accepted Christ as my Savior, the Holy Spirit of God came to live inside of me. I am sealed until the day of redemption. I do hope I will be rapture here fairly soon, but if not, I will still die physically.   My body is the temple of God, yet it will be destroyed and resurrected to its perfect state after I'm in Heaven.

Edited February 12, 2014 by anthonyjmcgirr

[Guest shiloh357]

Well I have the same in me now. When I became a Christian and accepted Christ as my Savior, the Holy Spirit of God came to live inside of me. I am sealed until the day of redemption. I do hope I will be rapture here fairly soon, but if not, I will still die physically.   My body is the temple of God, yet it will be destroyed and resurrected to its perfect state after I'm in Heaven.

That is true, but when we are saved and get eternal life, it is our spirit that has been born again.  The redemption of our bodies is the last thing to be realized at the end of time.   Adam did not have a body inititally that had been infected with sin.   Sin doesn't just affect problems in the spiritual realm.  It permeated all of creation.  

 

When our bodies are finally able to realize the redemption power of God, we will be as Adam was before He sinned, and even better when all sin is finally and fully eradicated.