Dialogue envisioning: Creationist vs Conventional scientist

[LookingForAnswers]

Dont you know Nebula what you do is not science, it is just bagels masquerading as science. 

[gray wolf]

So what caused all those galaxies to speed away if not a big bang?  Did you ever see the Farside cartoon of the short scientist talking to another scientist and two angry other scientists comment: there goes SImmons again trying to gain support for his Little Bang Theory!

[nebula]

Is this your desire nebula and others?

 

The funny thing is I had a desire to go to a specific somewhere, but I couldn't figure out how to get the discussion to go there.

 

 

Creationists point to Gen. 1:3 as where the creation of the universe began. Whenever I bring up vs. 1-2, especially vs 2, they don't conceptualize whatever matter that was, in whatever form it was, to be a part of the universe. Only that God made the universe from those "substances."

 

Likewise, the 4th day of Creation speaks of the objects we see in our galaxy with the naked eye from Earth. It does not speak of things unseen beyond our galaxy. Yet YEC wants to place those gazillion galaxies as all being a part of Day 4's creation - by default I guess.

 

 

And that's where I get the, "Either you believe God or you don't," types of responses.

[nebula]

Blessings Sister neb!!!

        Good Morning......don't ya just wake up some mornings & you just can't seem to Praise High enough,or shout loud enough or dance hard enough to say.........Bless You "ABBA"!!!!!!Thats the kind of morning I am having-lol !!!!!!!Halleluliah!

          I think I see where you where going with your little scenario .......I  began reading some commentaries but honestly they were so long & I am just to excited to do all that reading..................

           I just wanted to stick my little two cents in & say that sometimes when the Holy Spirit is working on the heart of the recipient "S".........the very simplest of answers are all that is needed.......whew,Praise & Glory to God Almighty!!!!!

            God bless you all this wonderful day our Lord has made!!!!!

                                                                                                                                  With love in Christ-Kwik

 

Thanks, Kwik!

[Enoch2021]

 

YEC:  The Big Bang goes against "science"

 

Scientist:  Why/How?

 

Well the 1st Law of Thermodynamics (1LOT) "Pillar of Science", states: Nature can't create or destroy matter/energy...they can just change form.

And we are here

 

Scientist:  You're right.  Can I see that Bible of Yours???

 

YEC: Yes, you surely can

Scientist: The big bang was a change in form, not the creation of new matter or energy. 

 

YEC:  That is not what AIG told me!  

 

Very good! I was envisioning something like:

 

YEC:

Well the 1st Law of Thermodynamics (1LOT) "Pillar of Science", states: Nature can't create or destroy matter/energy...they can just change form.

And we are here

 

Scientist:

[insert quantum physics and string theory explanations.]

 

YEC:

 

 

 

Scientist:

[insert quantum physics and string theory explanations.]

 

YEC:  {insert and.....? }  are you postulating things just Pop into Existence from nothing without a cause and this somehow Invalidates 1LOT?  Can you provide a CITED reference with Time of Death and Obituary for 1LOT?

 

Are you aware that a Quantum Vacuum is SOMETHING?? .....

 

Alan Guth, professor of physics at M.I.T, “In this context, a proposal that the universe was created from empty space is no more fundamental than a proposal that the universe was spawned by a piece of rubber. It might be true, but one would still want to ask where the piece of rubber came from”

Guth, Alan The Inflationary Universe (New York: Perseus Books).1997, p. 273.

 

Philip Yam of Scientific American wrote, “Energy in the vacuum, though, is very much real. According to modern physics, a vacuum isn’t a pocket of nothingness. It churns with unseen activity even at absolute zero, the temperature defined as the point at which all molecular motion ceases”

Yam, Philip, “Exploiting Zero-Point Energy,” Scientific American, 277[6]:82-85. 1997, p. 82.

 

“Quantum mechanics tells us that the vacuum of space is not empty; instead, it crackles with energy”

Gefter, Amanda, “Touching the Multiverse,” New Scientist, 205[2750]:28-31, March 6 2010, p. 29.

 

"Some physicists assert that quantum mechanics…can produce something from nothing…. But this is a gross misapplication of quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics never produces something out of nothing…. Theories that the Universe is a quantum fluctuation must presuppose that there was something to fluctuate—their “quantum vacuum” is a lot of matter-antimatter potential—not “nothing”

Sarfati, Jonathan D. “If God Created the Universe, Then Who Created God?,” Creation Ex Nihilo Technical Journal, 1998 12[1]:21.

 

'A more fundamental problem is that Tryon’s scenario does not really explain the origin of the universe. A quantum fluctuation of the vacuum assumes that there was a vacuum of some pre-existing space. And we now know that “vacuum” is very different from “nothing.” Vacuum, or empty space, has energy and tension, it can bend and warp, so it is unquestionably something.'

Vilenkin, Alex,  Many Worlds in One: The Search for Other Universes (New York: Hill and Wang). 2006, p. 185.

 

 

Scientist:

                 and  

 

 

Conventional Scientist now (Born Again Christian) :  I tried to tell him; In the beginning GOD.....

[enoob57]

the observable of Spirit verses the created element of begin:

Rev 3:15-16

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot:

I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art

lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out

of my mouth.

KJV

First law of thermodynamics: The increase in internal energy of a closed system is equal

to the difference of the heat supplied to the system and the work done by it. That outside

of the system observable brought into the system the necessary of said system >life<

Second law of thermodynamics: Heat cannot spontaneously flow from a colder location to a hotter location.

The system could not produce this necessary- the created could not become the Creator >life<

Third law of thermodynamics: As a system approaches absolute zero the entropy of the system approaches a minimum value.

That which was brought into the system became static and is in decline as no more is given >death<

 

Praise God for this passage of understanding as it explains all that we are seeing presently

Rom 1:20-25

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,

being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead;

so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were

thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of

the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and

fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts,

to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into

a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed

for ever. Amen.

KJV

The greatest apologetic ever written (His Word)was first testified by that which He has Made!

Love, Steven

[walkonwater]

if God spoke it then its truth, i never need to question truth, I am a full believer in our Maker of all heaven and all earth and if you have a question, He's quite wonderful at answering them, but as for me i will never question what my heavenly Father has spoken, in Him I put all my trust, I don't need another, only Him and Him alone.

[nebula]

Dont you know Nebula what you do is not science, it is just bagels masquerading as science. 

 

Yeah, I know.

 

But I remember thinking that way myself, until I actually worked the science myself and discovered that classroom science isn't real science. (Chuck that to a part of our flawed educational system.)

 

The classroom teaches us science is about falsifying experimentation. Then you take a field science class and spend your time learning by observing and analyzing what was observed.

 

But with things like astronomy, most people don't understand that working with the calculations, comparing that with data gathered, and running new data through the calculation is the experimentation and falsifying the theory. I never fully appreciated that until I took and astronomy lab class where we got to practice such.

 

How many people know that the layers of the earth as we know that is actually a theory and not proven fact? Seriously. No one has seen beneath the upper mantle to prove anything. All we have are instruments that measure seismic waves passing through the globe to tell us different things based on such things as speed of the wave from one point to another.

 

Anyway, the point is, if people can be shown in some way how science deals with things that can't be grown in a lab so to speak (which is unfortunately where classrooms are restricted), it would help them to understand and respect this kind of science.

[Spock]

if God spoke it then its truth, i never need to question truth, I am a full believer in our Maker of all heaven and all earth and if you have a question, He's quite wonderful at answering them, but as for me i will never question what my heavenly Father has spoken, in Him I put all my trust, I don't need another, only Him and Him alone.

Can't argue with these words sis, but for some reason, God has not wanted to make our acquiring knowledge that simple. He could have worded the Bible much differently to remove the gray area and make it much more black and white, so that there would be no more discussions, debates, and schisms in the body of Christ. But he didn't, so we press on looking for truth with what bits he gave us while using our brains (which he blessed us with above the animal) and perseverance.

What does he say in Proverbs over and over again- he gives wisdom to those who are searching hard.

For instance, I wish my pre trib and post trib brothers would know the truth as I know it (pre wrath), but for some reason, they think what God said says something different from what I think God said. Lol. And so, let the discussions press on.......

How many more topics are not clear enough? God knew this would happen.

I believe the most important thing God wants to see through these differences is that we can still love one another and show respect to one another through our differences.

I can honestly say that I love my pre trib and YEC brothers very much too, even though they may be slightly misguided. (Said while ducking)

Spock (running) out

[nebula]

Hi Enoch -

 

Perhaps you would be interested in tackling

 

Vs. 2 of Genesis 1 states they existed before God said, "Let there be light."

 

What do you make of this?