homebild Posted February 19, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 218 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thief on the Cross. Many use the "Thief" on the Cross as 'proof' that Baptism is not necessary for Salvation.... But we know NOTHING about whether or not the "Thief" was ever Baptized or not....Just that he was crucified next to Jesus...admitted his guilt...and that his own crucifixtion was justified. Did this man partake in John's Baptism?...We do not know... Was this man a practicing Jew?...we do not know... Was this man a Gentile Christian?...we do not know... Was he baptized as a believing Christian?....we simply do not know. The FACT is no sound doctrine regarding 'baptism' and it's effect on Salvation can be gleaned from the story of the Thief who was crucified next to Jesus! We do not know if he was or wasn't baptized! What we DO KNOW, however, is that Jesus, Himself, was Baptized...to fulfill the Law and God's command... And that Jesus COMMANDED any who claimed to 'follow' Him to submit to Baptism in the same manner that He submitted to baptism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edify Posted February 19, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 15 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2014 I was wondering if someone needed two baptisms. Scripture does not state nor does it have an example of someone needing/receiving two baptisms, however, when infant baptisms occur, are we then filled with the Holy Spirit at that point? Or, are we not filled with the Holy Spirit until later in life when we come to the ‘age of accountability’ and choose to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and let him into our hearts? I believe the bible indicates there may be 2 baptisms; 1. water baptism 2. baptism of the Holy Spirit. The latter may come before water baptism or as you said; when we reach the "age of accountability" or never; depending on what God decides of course? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Rush Posted February 19, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 14 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Water baptism is symbolic, it can not save. A wet * edited * baby is a lost person. Edited February 19, 2014 by OneLight no catholic basking allowed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eben4christ Posted February 19, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 32 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/28/1985 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Brethren, let us all read 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10. You could see that Jesus is going to take vengeance on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. In other words, there are only two kinds of people: those who have obeyed the gospel and those who haven’t. Have you obeyed the gospel? And what is gospel? 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: In these verse Paul began explains the gospel in the simplest terms. In verse one he states that he is getting ready to declare the gospel, verifying that it’s the message that the Christians at Corinth had already received. It’s the message on which they stood. It’s the message by which they were saved if they kept it in memory. Then Paul details the gospel. He says that the gospel is this: Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day. Paul said that all of this happened to Jesus according to the scriptures (referring to the hundred of Old Testament prophecies about Jesus Christ as the Messiah). So the gospel is “The Death, Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus said He is going to take vengeance on everyone who hasn’t obeyed the gospel, but the gospel is His death burial and resurrection – an event in history. How in the world do you obey a historical event? And that is the question that everyone needs to be asking! Paul gives the answer to that question in the book of Romans. Romans 6:3-5 “Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the death by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection: The gospel consists of Christ’s Crucifixion, His Burial and His Resurrection. First we must die to a life of sin. This re-enacts the crucifixion. Our wiliness to die to sin is repentance. It is turning away from the regular practice of sin. Repentance is making a conscious decision to turn your back on your sins and on the world. It is to turn toward the cross of Christ. We die to sin as Christ died on the cross; therefore, we are re-enacting His death on the cross. We crucify our old man of sin on the cross through our willingness to repent. Second, in baptism we re-enact Christ’s burial. Paul said in verse 3 that when we are baptized we are baptized into Christ’s death. So, we are re-enacting Christ burial in the tomb, but our burial is in a watery grave instead of a tomb. Paul said that we are baptized into Christ, verse 3, and we are buried with Him by baptism into death, verse 4. Baptism into Jesus Christ is where we are planted together with Him in the likeness of His death, verse 5. Finally, we re-enact the resurrection. Paul said that like Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father even so we also should walk in newness of life, verse 4. When we are raised up out of that grave of baptism we are re-enacting the likeness of Christ’s resurrection. The great hope of every faithful Christian is to be resurrected unto eternal life. Paul makes a special mention of this fact in verse 5 by saying that we shall be in the likeness of His resurrection if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death. Brethren, here are life and death points. If we are not baptized we are NOT: 1. Put into Jesus Christ (Gal. 3:26-27) 2. Added to His body, the church (Acts 2:47; Col. 1:18) 3. Into His death (Rom. 6:3) 4. Buried with Him (Rom. 6:4) 5. Planted together in the likeness of His death (Rom. 6:5) 6. Raised up in the likeness of His resurrection (Rom. 6:5) 7. Raised to walk in newness of life (Rom. 6:4) 8. Obeying the gospel of Jesus Christ (2Thess. 1:6-10) 9. Forgiven of past sins (Acts 22:16) 10. Safe in the saving ark which is Jesus Christ (Eph. 5:23-25; Acts 2:47) God bless you all for your time...... Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindwhale Posted February 21, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 55 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/16/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/24/1985 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I live by the belief that baptism must be done through the running waters. I have seen many get it done in a church's bath tub, and I feel that if you used that route, then only in this exception would it require a second baptism, but in running waters: river or lake. Repentance is all that is needed if you fall into sin after baptism. The baptism is your symbolic desire to commit to God, but without repentance baptism does not mean a thing if you continue to carry on with your fleshly ways. That is why John the Baptist pushed repentance as it goes hand in hand with baptismal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted February 22, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2014 I live by the belief that baptism must be done through the running waters. I have seen many get it done in a church's bath tub, and I feel that if you used that route, then only in this exception would it require a second baptism, but in running waters: river or lake. Repentance is all that is needed if you fall into sin after baptism. The baptism is your symbolic desire to commit to God, but without repentance baptism does not mean a thing if you continue to carry on with your fleshly ways. That is why John the Baptist pushed repentance as it goes hand in hand with baptismal. A lake is an oversized bathtub. Not every area has running waters. I live in a desert. Our riverbeds are dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 22, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,088 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,829 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2014 I live by the belief that baptism must be done through the running waters. I have seen many get it done in a church's bath tub, and I feel that if you used that route, then only in this exception would it require a second baptism, but in running waters: river or lake. Repentance is all that is needed if you fall into sin after baptism. The baptism is your symbolic desire to commit to God, but without repentance baptism does not mean a thing if you continue to carry on with your fleshly ways. That is why John the Baptist pushed repentance as it goes hand in hand with baptismal. A lake is an oversized bathtub. Not every area has running waters. I live in a desert. Our riverbeds are dry. bury them in the sand then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindwhale Posted February 22, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 55 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/16/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/24/1985 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I suppose it depends on how you view your faith. Is making a commitment to the exalted God above all not important enough to make the journey to display a strong testament to your faith? Did not God lead His people through hostile nations where they had given up everything to follow God? You see, this is the very issue I have with some, regarding their brushing aside God. God is so much more than simply using inconvenience as an excuse. Either way I am sure God honors you with love and mercy. It is just my opinion on how I personally fee. The majority of prophets in the bible went to extreme lengths to exalt Dear God. Are we not to follow in this image? As for me, I feel that our actions pertaining to God should display our commitment with proper exaltation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIP Posted February 22, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 545 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 116 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/16/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2014 eben4Christ you quoted: Baptism is the commandment from Jesus Christ Himself (Mark 16:15-16; Matthew 28:19). It was implemented by the apostles on the day of Pentecost, those who believed were commanded to repent and be baptized for the remission of their sins (Acts 2:38). Everybody who believed the gospel were baptized including Paul (Acts 8:36-39; Acts 18:8-9; Acts 10:48; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 22:16), all these tell us that baptism is very important because the apostles taught and preached it as they were led by the Holy Spirit. The thief on the cross died before Christianity and Jesus Christ whilst on earth had the power to forgive sins (Mark 2:10) so the thief on the cross was not lutely Christian because Christianity started on the day of Pentecost. Thanks and may God bless you absolutely correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyAk Posted February 22, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 19 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2014 I believe two baptisms are done to fulfill all righteousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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