Can violence be justified?

[ayin jade]

 

 

The most famous people of the 20th Century are Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, all people who were against violence and overcome oppressors through the use of non-violence. this is the way of Jesus.

 

 

Actually that statement is not correct. I am South African and I know Nelson Mandela saved our country from a bloodbath. He is one of my role models and I have met him and sat down to lunch with him.

 

But he did advocate violence, and it was he who stated that the ANC's military wing Mkonto we Siswe (the spear of the nation), should take up arms. He was arrested in the Rivonia trial for planning to set bombs on power pylons.

 

I am no saying that the south African government was correct or moral, and that his life term as a terrorist was right, but we need to get our facts correct.

 

 

 

 

this is a complete misunderstanding of Mandela's position.

He attacked civil physical structures.

He was completely against attacking people.

It part of the white propaganda to say he was a terrorist.

 

 

Im pretty sure fez knows what he is talking about. 

[ncn]

 

 

 

The most famous people of the 20th Century are Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, all people who were against violence and overcome oppressors through the use of non-violence. this is the way of Jesus.

 

 

Actually that statement is not correct. I am South African and I know Nelson Mandela saved our country from a bloodbath. He is one of my role models and I have met him and sat down to lunch with him.

 

But he did advocate violence, and it was he who stated that the ANC's military wing Mkonto we Siswe (the spear of the nation), should take up arms. He was arrested in the Rivonia trial for planning to set bombs on power pylons.

 

I am no saying that the south African government was correct or moral, and that his life term as a terrorist was right, but we need to get our facts correct.

 

 

 

 

this is a complete misunderstanding of Mandela's position.

He attacked civil physical structures.

He was completely against attacking people.

It part of the white propaganda to say he was a terrorist.

 

 

Im pretty sure fez knows what he is talking about. 

 

 

I second Jade on this. 

 

Fez knows what he is talking about and I trust his opinion. 

[Hashe]

 

 

 

 

The most famous people of the 20th Century are Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, all people who were against violence and overcome oppressors through the use of non-violence. this is the way of Jesus.

 

 

Actually that statement is not correct. I am South African and I know Nelson Mandela saved our country from a bloodbath. He is one of my role models and I have met him and sat down to lunch with him.

 

But he did advocate violence, and it was he who stated that the ANC's military wing Mkonto we Siswe (the spear of the nation), should take up arms. He was arrested in the Rivonia trial for planning to set bombs on power pylons.

 

I am no saying that the south African government was correct or moral, and that his life term as a terrorist was right, but we need to get our facts correct.

 

 

 

 

this is a complete misunderstanding of Mandela's position.

He attacked civil physical structures.

He was completely against attacking people.

It part of the white propaganda to say he was a terrorist.

 

 

Im pretty sure fez knows what he is talking about. 

 

 

I second Jade on this. 

 

Fez knows what he is talking about and I trust his opinion. 

 

 

Read A long walk to freedom, or watch the movie, or read the transcripts of his trial.

Don't just take somebody's word for it.

[ayin jade]

 

 

 

 

 

The most famous people of the 20th Century are Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, all people who were against violence and overcome oppressors through the use of non-violence. this is the way of Jesus.

 

 

Actually that statement is not correct. I am South African and I know Nelson Mandela saved our country from a bloodbath. He is one of my role models and I have met him and sat down to lunch with him.

 

But he did advocate violence, and it was he who stated that the ANC's military wing Mkonto we Siswe (the spear of the nation), should take up arms. He was arrested in the Rivonia trial for planning to set bombs on power pylons.

 

I am no saying that the south African government was correct or moral, and that his life term as a terrorist was right, but we need to get our facts correct.

 

 

 

 

this is a complete misunderstanding of Mandela's position.

He attacked civil physical structures.

He was completely against attacking people.

It part of the white propaganda to say he was a terrorist.

 

 

Im pretty sure fez knows what he is talking about. 

 

 

I second Jade on this. 

 

Fez knows what he is talking about and I trust his opinion. 

 

 

Read A long walk to freedom, or watch the movie, or read the transcripts of his trial.

Don't just take somebody's word for it.

 

 

Isnt watching a movie or reading a book also taking someone's word for it?

 

Fez was there. Surely the word of an eyewitness is worth something.

[Hashe]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The most famous people of the 20th Century are Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, all people who were against violence and overcome oppressors through the use of non-violence. this is the way of Jesus.

 

 

Actually that statement is not correct. I am South African and I know Nelson Mandela saved our country from a bloodbath. He is one of my role models and I have met him and sat down to lunch with him.

 

But he did advocate violence, and it was he who stated that the ANC's military wing Mkonto we Siswe (the spear of the nation), should take up arms. He was arrested in the Rivonia trial for planning to set bombs on power pylons.

 

I am no saying that the south African government was correct or moral, and that his life term as a terrorist was right, but we need to get our facts correct.

 

 

 

 

this is a complete misunderstanding of Mandela's position.

He attacked civil physical structures.

He was completely against attacking people.

It part of the white propaganda to say he was a terrorist.

 

 

Im pretty sure fez knows what he is talking about. 

 

 

I second Jade on this. 

 

Fez knows what he is talking about and I trust his opinion. 

 

 

Read A long walk to freedom, or watch the movie, or read the transcripts of his trial.

Don't just take somebody's word for it.

 

 

Isnt watching a movie or reading a book also taking someone's word for it?

 

Fez was there. Surely the word of an eyewitness is worth something.

 

 

The book was written by Mandela.

I would take Mandela's word above someone's else word about Mandela - don't you think it is better to hear from the man himself?

[other one]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The most famous people of the 20th Century are Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Mother Theresa, all people who were against violence and overcome oppressors through the use of non-violence. this is the way of Jesus.

 

 

Actually that statement is not correct. I am South African and I know Nelson Mandela saved our country from a bloodbath. He is one of my role models and I have met him and sat down to lunch with him.

 

But he did advocate violence, and it was he who stated that the ANC's military wing Mkonto we Siswe (the spear of the nation), should take up arms. He was arrested in the Rivonia trial for planning to set bombs on power pylons.

 

I am no saying that the south African government was correct or moral, and that his life term as a terrorist was right, but we need to get our facts correct.

 

 

 

 

this is a complete misunderstanding of Mandela's position.

He attacked civil physical structures.

He was completely against attacking people.

It part of the white propaganda to say he was a terrorist.

 

 

Im pretty sure fez knows what he is talking about. 

 

 

I second Jade on this. 

 

Fez knows what he is talking about and I trust his opinion. 

 

 

Read A long walk to freedom, or watch the movie, or read the transcripts of his trial.

Don't just take somebody's word for it.

 

 

Isnt watching a movie or reading a book also taking someone's word for it?

 

Fez was there. Surely the word of an eyewitness is worth something.

 

 

The book was written by Mandela.

I would take Mandela's word above someone's else word about Mandela - don't you think it is better to hear from the man himself?

 

Not necessarily....                

[Guest Manuel_Butter]

I kind of see what the OP means when he says, "The LORD will protect his children". 

If we are indeed HIS children, wouldn't that mean protection from harm? It would seem so, but think about it: lot's of things happen to Christians all the time. Is this Satan influencing the minds of non-believers to bring harm to us? GOD does seem to condone violence, but only when it follows HIS will- John 1 states that the WORD was GOD, therefore HIS will, HIS WORD are the same.

 

justifying violence? maybe not, but protecting HIS children? I think GOD will do the fighting for us. turn your cheek, give him your other cloak, anyone remember these?

[The_Patriot21]

heres a thought manuel. God often uses people to accomplish His will. People. He doesn't send angels down to knock rapists off their feet. and yes, sometimes bad things happen to people. but perhaps, in my eye, if im walking down the street and I see a young girl being raped and I have the ability to stop that violent act from happening-perhaps by using a bit of violence of my own, then maybe Im Gods tool. Maybe not. But I cannot in good conscience, walk away from a violent crime being perpetrated on a helpless victim.

 

note in the Bible, how many times do we see God doing all the fighting for His people-and how many times does he require action on their part, before He even thinks of intervening? food for thought.

[enoob57]

In the New Testament four that I can recall:

twice with cords... Christ with anger of the world's system brought into His Father's house.

once with sword... Jesus told Peter to stop as carnal effort breeds only carnal outcome.

at the end of tribulation... Jesus with His Word will destroy the anti-Christ's armies.

Bringing into us other food for thought

1 John 2:15-17

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.

If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the

lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father,

but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that

doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

KJV

the motivation for self and loved ones to remain here seem greatly reduced... even to this point

2 Cor 5:1-9

5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved,

we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house

which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we

would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given

unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing

that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to

be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent,

we may be accepted of him.

KJV

It seems very odd that I should fight and kill to remain here when my life is not my own any longer!

In fact I am by what possesses me to be a witness to self and to those around me to be unique

1 Peter 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar

people;that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of

darkness into his marvellous light:

KJV

Titus 2:14

[A peculiar people] 1 Peter 2:9. The word here used

periousios

occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. It means, properly, having abundance; and then one's own,

what is special, or peculiar (Robinson, Lexicon), and here means that they were to be regarded as

belonging to the Lord Jesus. It does not mean, as the word would seem to imply—and as is undoubtedly

true-that they are to be a unique people in the sense that they are to be unlike others, or to have

views and principles unique to themselves; but that they belong to the Saviour in contradistinction

from belonging to themselves - "peculiar" or his own in the sense that a man's property is his own,

and does not belong to others. This passage, therefore, should not be used to prove that Christians

should be unlike others in their manner of living, but that they belong to Christ as his redeemed

people. From that it may indeed be inferred that they should be unlike others, but that is not the

direct teaching of the passage.

[Zealous of good works] As the result of their redemption; that is, this is one object of their having

been redeemed; Notes, Eph 2:10.

I find nothing unique in men killing one another to remain here no matter the banner they wave!

In fact this rations fear in me for my loved ones who think killing is sanctioned by God now-

Matt 7:2

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what

measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

KJV

As the dad kills to save the son... what of The Father Who sent His Son and how are we separate from that

heart now in witness to other that would abuse our son and kill him? Should not our desire be for their

salvation (as) greater than our will for their death and sealing of what they are and what they are bringing

against us? As long as were going to think lets go to the end of that thinking!

Love, Steven

Edited April 10, 2014 by enoob57

[The_Patriot21]

that actually doesnt answer my question, you just brought up points Ive already addressed enoob.