It wasn't an apple

[a-seeker]

The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds.  The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition.  It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience.

 

The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content.  There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc.

 

What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man.

 

clb

[OneLight]

The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds.  The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition.  It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience.

 

The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content.  There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc.

 

What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man.

 

clb

If they were autonomous, not acquiring a moral content by eating, then why did they hide their nakedness?

Genesis 3:10-11

So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”

And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”

[other one]

The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds.  The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition.  It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience.

 

The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content.  There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc.

 

What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man.

 

clb

 

the fruit of that tree did give them the knowledge of good and evil.....   there is much much more to this than just doing something that God told them not to.......  How can you hold them responsible for doing something if they don't know the difference.   However, once they did learn of good and evil  (right/wrong) then they were responsible for their own actions.   And with the universal law of sin creates death, and they were then responsible for whatever they did, they had to die in the end.    you can't get around that fact that eating the fruit gave them that knowledge.....   and I don't think a simple apple would do so.....

 

The other fruit was basically the fountain of youth that has been searched for just about everywhere......   that wasn't a peach tree either.

[a-seeker]

 

The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds.  The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition.  It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience.

 

The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content.  There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc.

 

What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man.

 

clb

If they were autonomous, not acquiring a moral content by eating, then why did they hide their nakedness?

Genesis 3:10-11

So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”

And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”

 

I am not sure what your point is, but I can start by replying that they "declared" themselves to be autonomous--not that they were autonomous.  No one but God is in fact autonomous: if we really were, that would mean that our very existence is supplied not ultimately by God, but by ourselves, which is obviously not true--people die.

 

As for the nakedness; I do not see the shame of nudity connected with moral guilt.  I don't particularly feel guilty in the shower.

 

clb

[a-seeker]

 

The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds.  The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition.  It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience.

 

The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content.  There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc.

 

What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man.

 

clb

 

the fruit of that tree did give them the knowledge of good and evil.....   there is much much more to this than just doing something that God told them not to.......  How can you hold them responsible for doing something if they don't know the difference.   However, once they did learn of good and evil  (right/wrong) then they were responsible for their own actions.   And with the universal law of sin creates death, and they were then responsible for whatever they did, they had to die in the end.    you can't get around that fact that eating the fruit gave them that knowledge.....   and I don't think a simple apple would do so.....

 

The other fruit was basically the fountain of youth that has been searched for just about everywhere......   that wasn't a peach tree either.

 

I see where you are coming from....there are obviously layers here.

 

Point blank, I don't believe there is or ever was a literal tree that gave eternal life, nor a tree that bestowed knowledge of good and evil.  I take the narrative to be an inspired myth, communicating historical realities in mythic form.

 

clb

[OneLight]

The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds.  The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition.  It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience.

 

The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content.  There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc.

 

What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man.

 

clb

If they were autonomous, not acquiring a moral content by eating, then why did they hide their nakedness?

Genesis 3:10-11

So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”

And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”

I am not sure what your point is, but I can start by replying that they "declared" themselves to be autonomous--not that they were autonomous.  No one but God is in fact autonomous: if we really were, that would mean that our very existence is supplied not ultimately by God, but by ourselves, which is obviously not true--people die.

 

As for the nakedness; I do not see the shame of nudity connected with moral guilt.  I don't particularly feel guilty in the shower.

 

clb

Thanks for the clarification. I misunderstood what you meant.

As for the nakedness and morality, they knew they were naked for the first time and understood that this was an immoral act due to their newly opened eyes of the difference between good and evil. The lessons in Genesis is not about you or I, though they are for us to learn from.

[other one]

 

 

The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds.  The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition.  It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience.

 

The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content.  There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc.

 

What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man.

 

clb

 

the fruit of that tree did give them the knowledge of good and evil.....   there is much much more to this than just doing something that God told them not to.......  How can you hold them responsible for doing something if they don't know the difference.   However, once they did learn of good and evil  (right/wrong) then they were responsible for their own actions.   And with the universal law of sin creates death, and they were then responsible for whatever they did, they had to die in the end.    you can't get around that fact that eating the fruit gave them that knowledge.....   and I don't think a simple apple would do so.....

 

The other fruit was basically the fountain of youth that has been searched for just about everywhere......   that wasn't a peach tree either.

 

I see where you are coming from....there are obviously layers here.

 

Point blank, I don't believe there is or ever was a literal tree that gave eternal life, nor a tree that bestowed knowledge of good and evil.  I take the narrative to be an inspired myth, communicating historical realities in mythic form.

 

clb

 

Well, I guess there isn't much else to talk about is there....   have a good life.

[a-seeker]

 

 

 

The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds.  The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition.  It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience.

 

The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content.  There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc.

 

What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man.

 

clb

 

the fruit of that tree did give them the knowledge of good and evil.....   there is much much more to this than just doing something that God told them not to.......  How can you hold them responsible for doing something if they don't know the difference.   However, once they did learn of good and evil  (right/wrong) then they were responsible for their own actions.   And with the universal law of sin creates death, and they were then responsible for whatever they did, they had to die in the end.    you can't get around that fact that eating the fruit gave them that knowledge.....   and I don't think a simple apple would do so.....

 

The other fruit was basically the fountain of youth that has been searched for just about everywhere......   that wasn't a peach tree either.

 

I see where you are coming from....there are obviously layers here.

 

Point blank, I don't believe there is or ever was a literal tree that gave eternal life, nor a tree that bestowed knowledge of good and evil.  I take the narrative to be an inspired myth, communicating historical realities in mythic form.

 

clb

 

Well, I guess there isn't much else to talk about is there....   have a good life.

 

"have a good life"??....a little dramatic don't you think?  It implies that there will never be anything we can talk about, simply because of my view of Genesis.  I believe in the literal resurrection of Jesus Christ....shall we never find ourselves discussing that, perhaps even defending it together against antagonists...?

 

clb

[Donibm]

Anyway people ... lol ... the point is, there is no reference to it being an APPLE.  That is the key topic of this thread, and I think we all agree.

 

Whether you think its' a fruit or some sort of veggie, does it really matter?  What does it have to do with your SALVATION?  Not a single thing.  The Tree is in Paradise, and as long as your name is written in the Lambs Book of Life, you'll eat it IN Paradise.  isn't that more important to you that debating over WHAT is actually was on earth?  Is this not a little childish (physical and spiritual) to you?  If any of you are torn by something so minute and inconsequential, call it a PRODUCE.  That way, you won't have to say that it's a fruit or a veggie of any specific kind.  Simple solution.  After all, the Hebrew word itself also points to a type of produce.

 

... I'm afraid to read what some of you have to say/think about more doctrinal, deeper and more confounding things concerning the Word of God.  This is milk.  Not even fresh, enjoyable milk.  More like yesterdays milk left in yesterday cup.  it is a minor thing.

 

 

In the words of our Lord, I encourage and admonish you.  There is but ONE THING you should rejoice over:

 

not your titles

not your education

not your positions

certainly not your self-delusions to whatever 'rule' you think you have over men

not how long you've been a Christian

not how big your Church is

not who your pastor is

not what book(s) you've read

not that demons obey you

not that limbs grow at your touch

not that you prophecy

BUT THAT YOUR NAME IS WRITTEN IN THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE.

 

If you are focusing on anything else, you have missed the whole point of Gods suffering and sacrifice for you, and you've missed the core meaning of Salvation.

 

Everything else is really not as important as we think it is ... and who among you took a polaroid picture to show the rest of us?  OK, so, it wasn't an apple ... cause I've eaten plenty, but I'm dying a little bit more every day.  Case closed ... right?

 

[OneLight]

Anyway people ... lol ... the point is, there is no reference to it being an APPLE.  That is the key topic of this thread, and I think we all agree.

 

Whether you think its' a fruit or some sort of veggie, does it really matter?  What does it have to do with your SALVATION?  Not a single thing.  The Tree is in Paradise, and as long as your name is written in the Lambs Book of Life, you'll eat it IN Paradise.  isn't that more important to you that debating over WHAT is actually was on earth?  Is this not a little childish (physical and spiritual) to you?  If any of you are torn by something so minute and inconsequential, call it a PRODUCE.  That way, you won't have to say that it's a fruit or a veggie of any specific kind.  Simple solution.  After all, the Hebrew word itself also points to a type of produce.

 

... I'm afraid to read what some of you have to say/think about more doctrinal, deeper and more confounding things concerning the Word of God.  This is milk.  Not even fresh, enjoyable milk.  More like yesterdays milk left in yesterday cup.  it is a minor thing.

 

 

In the words of our Lord, I encourage and admonish you.  There is but ONE THING you should rejoice over:

 

not your titles

not your education

not your positions

certainly not your self-delusions to whatever 'rule' you think you have over men

not how long you've been a Christian

not how big your Church is

not who your pastor is

not what book(s) you've read

not that demons obey you

not that limbs grow at your touch

not that you prophecy

BUT THAT YOUR NAME IS WRITTEN IN THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE.

 

If you are focusing on anything else, you have missed the whole point of Gods suffering and sacrifice for you, and you've missed the core meaning of Salvation.

 

Everything else is really not as important as we think it is ... and who among you took a polaroid picture to show the rest of us?  OK, so, it wasn't an apple ... cause I've eaten plenty, but I'm dying a little bit more every day.  Case closed ... right?

 

Though I do appreciate what you are trying to say, I have to disagree that we will eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in "Paradise".   The only tree mentioned that we will eat of is the Tree of Life (Revelation 22).  The tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is never mentioned again as being available to anyone after the incident with Adam and Eve.

 

God Bless,

Alan