a-seeker Posted April 21, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2014 The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds. The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition. It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience. The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content. There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc. What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man. clb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 21, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.26 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2014 The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds. The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition. It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience. The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content. There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc. What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man. clbIf they were autonomous, not acquiring a moral content by eating, then why did they hide their nakedness?Genesis 3:10-11So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 21, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 593 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 55,874 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,623 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted April 21, 2014 The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds. The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition. It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience. The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content. There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc. What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man. clb the fruit of that tree did give them the knowledge of good and evil..... there is much much more to this than just doing something that God told them not to....... How can you hold them responsible for doing something if they don't know the difference. However, once they did learn of good and evil (right/wrong) then they were responsible for their own actions. And with the universal law of sin creates death, and they were then responsible for whatever they did, they had to die in the end. you can't get around that fact that eating the fruit gave them that knowledge..... and I don't think a simple apple would do so..... The other fruit was basically the fountain of youth that has been searched for just about everywhere...... that wasn't a peach tree either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-seeker Posted April 21, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2014 The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds. The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition. It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience. The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content. There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc. What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man. clb If they were autonomous, not acquiring a moral content by eating, then why did they hide their nakedness? Genesis 3:10-11So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.” And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?” I am not sure what your point is, but I can start by replying that they "declared" themselves to be autonomous--not that they were autonomous. No one but God is in fact autonomous: if we really were, that would mean that our very existence is supplied not ultimately by God, but by ourselves, which is obviously not true--people die. As for the nakedness; I do not see the shame of nudity connected with moral guilt. I don't particularly feel guilty in the shower. clb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-seeker Posted April 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2014 The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds. The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition. It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience. The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content. There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc. What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man. clb the fruit of that tree did give them the knowledge of good and evil..... there is much much more to this than just doing something that God told them not to....... How can you hold them responsible for doing something if they don't know the difference. However, once they did learn of good and evil (right/wrong) then they were responsible for their own actions. And with the universal law of sin creates death, and they were then responsible for whatever they did, they had to die in the end. you can't get around that fact that eating the fruit gave them that knowledge..... and I don't think a simple apple would do so..... The other fruit was basically the fountain of youth that has been searched for just about everywhere...... that wasn't a peach tree either. I see where you are coming from....there are obviously layers here. Point blank, I don't believe there is or ever was a literal tree that gave eternal life, nor a tree that bestowed knowledge of good and evil. I take the narrative to be an inspired myth, communicating historical realities in mythic form. clb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 22, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.26 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2014 The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds. The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition. It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience. The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content. There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc. What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man. clbIf they were autonomous, not acquiring a moral content by eating, then why did they hide their nakedness?Genesis 3:10-11So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”I am not sure what your point is, but I can start by replying that they "declared" themselves to be autonomous--not that they were autonomous. No one but God is in fact autonomous: if we really were, that would mean that our very existence is supplied not ultimately by God, but by ourselves, which is obviously not true--people die. As for the nakedness; I do not see the shame of nudity connected with moral guilt. I don't particularly feel guilty in the shower. clbThanks for the clarification. I misunderstood what you meant.As for the nakedness and morality, they knew they were naked for the first time and understood that this was an immoral act due to their newly opened eyes of the difference between good and evil. The lessons in Genesis is not about you or I, though they are for us to learn from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 22, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 593 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 55,874 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,623 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted April 22, 2014 The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds. The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition. It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience. The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content. There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc. What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man. clb the fruit of that tree did give them the knowledge of good and evil..... there is much much more to this than just doing something that God told them not to....... How can you hold them responsible for doing something if they don't know the difference. However, once they did learn of good and evil (right/wrong) then they were responsible for their own actions. And with the universal law of sin creates death, and they were then responsible for whatever they did, they had to die in the end. you can't get around that fact that eating the fruit gave them that knowledge..... and I don't think a simple apple would do so..... The other fruit was basically the fountain of youth that has been searched for just about everywhere...... that wasn't a peach tree either. I see where you are coming from....there are obviously layers here. Point blank, I don't believe there is or ever was a literal tree that gave eternal life, nor a tree that bestowed knowledge of good and evil. I take the narrative to be an inspired myth, communicating historical realities in mythic form. clb Well, I guess there isn't much else to talk about is there.... have a good life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-seeker Posted April 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2014 The fruit of the tree need not be anything special--let's call it a regular old apple, with regular seeds. The only distinction required for the story to be comprehensible is the prohibition. It was selected as a token of obedience, providing, unfortunately, room for temptation and disobedience. The phrase "knowing good and evil" may not refer to moral content. There are things called 'merisms' in the ancient literature; expressions used to convey "totality" by employing polar opposite conceptions...."as the east is from the west, so far have I removed..." etc. etc. What Adam and Eve did by eating the fruit was to declare themselves autonomous, which is God's prerogative, and therefore NOT good for man. clb the fruit of that tree did give them the knowledge of good and evil..... there is much much more to this than just doing something that God told them not to....... How can you hold them responsible for doing something if they don't know the difference. However, once they did learn of good and evil (right/wrong) then they were responsible for their own actions. And with the universal law of sin creates death, and they were then responsible for whatever they did, they had to die in the end. you can't get around that fact that eating the fruit gave them that knowledge..... and I don't think a simple apple would do so..... The other fruit was basically the fountain of youth that has been searched for just about everywhere...... that wasn't a peach tree either. I see where you are coming from....there are obviously layers here. Point blank, I don't believe there is or ever was a literal tree that gave eternal life, nor a tree that bestowed knowledge of good and evil. I take the narrative to be an inspired myth, communicating historical realities in mythic form. clb Well, I guess there isn't much else to talk about is there.... have a good life. "have a good life"??....a little dramatic don't you think? It implies that there will never be anything we can talk about, simply because of my view of Genesis. I believe in the literal resurrection of Jesus Christ....shall we never find ourselves discussing that, perhaps even defending it together against antagonists...? clb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donibm Posted April 22, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 246 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/09/1974 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Anyway people ... lol ... the point is, there is no reference to it being an APPLE. That is the key topic of this thread, and I think we all agree. Whether you think its' a fruit or some sort of veggie, does it really matter? What does it have to do with your SALVATION? Not a single thing. The Tree is in Paradise, and as long as your name is written in the Lambs Book of Life, you'll eat it IN Paradise. isn't that more important to you that debating over WHAT is actually was on earth? Is this not a little childish (physical and spiritual) to you? If any of you are torn by something so minute and inconsequential, call it a PRODUCE. That way, you won't have to say that it's a fruit or a veggie of any specific kind. Simple solution. After all, the Hebrew word itself also points to a type of produce. ... I'm afraid to read what some of you have to say/think about more doctrinal, deeper and more confounding things concerning the Word of God. This is milk. Not even fresh, enjoyable milk. More like yesterdays milk left in yesterday cup. it is a minor thing. In the words of our Lord, I encourage and admonish you. There is but ONE THING you should rejoice over: not your titles not your education not your positions certainly not your self-delusions to whatever 'rule' you think you have over men not how long you've been a Christian not how big your Church is not who your pastor is not what book(s) you've read not that demons obey you not that limbs grow at your touch not that you prophecy BUT THAT YOUR NAME IS WRITTEN IN THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE. If you are focusing on anything else, you have missed the whole point of Gods suffering and sacrifice for you, and you've missed the core meaning of Salvation. Everything else is really not as important as we think it is ... and who among you took a polaroid picture to show the rest of us? OK, so, it wasn't an apple ... cause I've eaten plenty, but I'm dying a little bit more every day. Case closed ... right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 22, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.26 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2014 Anyway people ... lol ... the point is, there is no reference to it being an APPLE. That is the key topic of this thread, and I think we all agree. Whether you think its' a fruit or some sort of veggie, does it really matter? What does it have to do with your SALVATION? Not a single thing. The Tree is in Paradise, and as long as your name is written in the Lambs Book of Life, you'll eat it IN Paradise. isn't that more important to you that debating over WHAT is actually was on earth? Is this not a little childish (physical and spiritual) to you? If any of you are torn by something so minute and inconsequential, call it a PRODUCE. That way, you won't have to say that it's a fruit or a veggie of any specific kind. Simple solution. After all, the Hebrew word itself also points to a type of produce. ... I'm afraid to read what some of you have to say/think about more doctrinal, deeper and more confounding things concerning the Word of God. This is milk. Not even fresh, enjoyable milk. More like yesterdays milk left in yesterday cup. it is a minor thing. In the words of our Lord, I encourage and admonish you. There is but ONE THING you should rejoice over: not your titles not your education not your positions certainly not your self-delusions to whatever 'rule' you think you have over men not how long you've been a Christian not how big your Church is not who your pastor is not what book(s) you've read not that demons obey you not that limbs grow at your touch not that you prophecy BUT THAT YOUR NAME IS WRITTEN IN THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE. If you are focusing on anything else, you have missed the whole point of Gods suffering and sacrifice for you, and you've missed the core meaning of Salvation. Everything else is really not as important as we think it is ... and who among you took a polaroid picture to show the rest of us? OK, so, it wasn't an apple ... cause I've eaten plenty, but I'm dying a little bit more every day. Case closed ... right? Though I do appreciate what you are trying to say, I have to disagree that we will eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in "Paradise". The only tree mentioned that we will eat of is the Tree of Life (Revelation 22). The tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is never mentioned again as being available to anyone after the incident with Adam and Eve. God Bless, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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