Jephthah's daughter.

[Guest Butero]

I would prefer to believe that is what happened, but if she wasn't offered up as a burnt offering, the vow was not fulfilled, and that doesn't make sense to me.  Remember again that God never told anyone to offer a human sacrifice, at least with the intent it be carried out.  In the case of Abraham, God stopped him before he killed his son.  Abraham was just being tested.  I noticed last night that someone brought that up.  The God of the Bible has never demanded human sacrifice.  Many of the false gods did, but not the God of scripture. 

[other one]

speaking strictly for myself I would not let my daughter suffer my stupidity.....   I'd just tell God I couldn't do it and for him to deal out whatever retribution I deserved for breaking a vow....

[Guest Butero]

I don't think I could do it either Other One, but he wouldn't have necessarily been the only one to suffer.  It may have meant plagues on Israel where thousands died, or running from their enemies and having many soldiers die.  I honestly don't understand what possessed him to make such a stupid vow, when God never required it. 

[Openly Curious]

Yes there is probably validity to that. God expected those who made vows to him to keep them.

Ecclesiastes 5:1-7 - KEEP THY foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.  Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God :  for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth:  therefore let thy words be few.  For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.  When thou vowest a vow unto God; defer not to pay it;  for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed.  Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.  Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was error; wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?  For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are divers (different) vanities: but fear thou God.

 

It even ask the question in the scriptural text " wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands?"  When you consider the works of our hands is our livlihood in the sense that it is how we make a living that is a serious thing to have our provisions destroyed that we have worked for.  But to me it shows God held those who made vows to their word and held them accountable for the words.  There defiantely were "consequences" if one re-nigged or went back on the vow they made to God if they refused to pay it.  Scripture states it's actually "better" to not vow than to make a vow and not to pay it because God expects them to keep their vow to him.   So I can see that in Jehpthah's dream of wanting to defeat Ammon it caused him to utter foolish words without thought given to them before the Lord so that his desire or dream of military conquest would happen. But this NT scripture comes to mind to me after reflection upon the story of Jepthah's vow and it is found in...

 

James 1:19 - Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:        

[Guest LadyC]

I realize that many are used to thinking that Jephthah's daughter was a burnt offering, but that is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word 'olah, which literally means "rising" and can refer to a burnt offering, but not necessarily. There were human sacrifices in the Old Testament, namely "wave offerings." But they did not involve killing anyone. "I beseech you . . . a living sacrifice" in the New Testament. Study it closer and see if you agree that the text does not imply that the daughter was killed, but rather made like a nun who never married.

 

i believe you are absolutely correct. and i'm glad to find ONE other person on this entire website who agrees with me on that point. i was the lone voice in a similar discussion here last year, and i took quite a beating for it. i almost didn't even venture into this one, but i decided to look and see if i was still alone.

[Guest Butero]

 

I realize that many are used to thinking that Jephthah's daughter was a burnt offering, but that is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word 'olah, which literally means "rising" and can refer to a burnt offering, but not necessarily. There were human sacrifices in the Old Testament, namely "wave offerings." But they did not involve killing anyone. "I beseech you . . . a living sacrifice" in the New Testament. Study it closer and see if you agree that the text does not imply that the daughter was killed, but rather made like a nun who never married.

 

i believe you are absolutely correct. and i'm glad to find ONE other person on this entire website who agrees with me on that point. i was the lone voice in a similar discussion here last year, and i took quite a beating for it. i almost didn't even venture into this one, but i decided to look and see if i was still alone.

 

If you believe that, I have no problem with it, but don't you think it was a bit strange that the women of Israel would go through a ritual of mourning for someone just because Jephthah's daughter had to remain a virgin all her days?  They went out 4 days each year to lament the fact she had to remain a virgin?  I can't believe that, but I am not going to beat you up for it. 

[Guest LadyC]

I would prefer to believe that is what happened, but if she wasn't offered up as a burnt offering, the vow was not fulfilled, and that doesn't make sense to me.  Remember again that God never told anyone to offer a human sacrifice, at least with the intent it be carried out.  In the case of Abraham, God stopped him before he killed his son.  Abraham was just being tested.  I noticed last night that someone brought that up.  The God of the Bible has never demanded human sacrifice.  Many of the false gods did, but not the God of scripture. 

i believe the vow WAS fulfilled. but just as so many people for so long have misinterpreted the actions that were carried out as a result of the vow, so was the whole scope of the vow to begin with.

 

jephthah was well aware of the law of God  and how He felt about human sacrifice. He also knew very well that his daughter was very likely to be the first out the door upon his return. so why would he make a vow that he knew could very likely end up making God angry? and why would God later, in the NT, credit him as being such a great man of God?

 

here is my understanding, and there are a lot of bible scholars who believe this as well. jephthah DID sacrifice his daughter... she was his only child. by dedicating her to the Lord's service where she would probably have lived the remainder of her life in the temple), not only was he (in a very parental sense) losing his daughter, he was also cutting off any chance of his own lineage continuing. he wouldn't be having any other children, and now the daughter also wouldn't. in those days, this was almost a fate worse than death. it was the death of the entire family line.

 

this is a very widely accepted theory of these scriptures... equally as accepted as the idea that he actually sacrificed his daughter in a physical offering. sacrificing her instead as a spiritual offering makes much more sense and does not in any way contradict scripture. 

 

oh yeah, and i almost forgot... if you'll recall (and this is something jephthah knew, too), law dictated that the firstborn was to be sacrificed... however, firstborn human children were to be redeemed by... oh heck, my memory is fuzzy but i'm wanting to say a lamb, but i don't really think that's right. anyway, IN THEIR PLACE, as redemption, an animal was to be sacrificed instead of the human child. 

 

we know that he DID sacrifice his daughter. but there's really nothing in scripture to indicate that such a sacrifice ended in her physical death.

 

now, i'm going to try my best to walk away from this thread, because last time i engaged in this discussion i took such an emotional beating from everyone who disagreed with me that it has left me literally never wanting even think about jepththah and his daughter again, and made me so upset last time that i had to leave the forums for a time.

 

so carry on, and i'll try to stay away.

[Guest LadyC]

(and thanks for offering not to be in on the beating LOL)

[Guest Butero]

There is one thing I want to mention about this story.  Have you ever noticed that God is never directly mentioned in the story?  He doesn't send a prophet and tell anyone what to do in this situation.  Jephthah was never told by God he should make that vow, and no prophet told him he must sacrifice his daughter.  The people acted on their own out of fear.  They were more scared over breaking a vow than they were concerned about putting an innocent young lady to death.  One could make an argument that either way they went, they were violating the law.  They were faced with breaking a vow or committing an act of murder. 

 

I look at this story as showing the importance of being careful about the vows we make. 

[Guest LadyC]

There is one thing I want to mention about this story.  Have you ever noticed that God is never directly mentioned in the story?  He doesn't send a prophet and tell anyone what to do in this situation.  Jephthah was never told by God he should make that vow, and no prophet told him he must sacrifice his daughter.  The people acted on their own out of fear.  They were more scared over breaking a vow than they were concerned about putting an innocent young lady to death.  One could make an argument that either way they went, they were violating the law.  They were faced with breaking a vow or committing an act of murder. 

 

I look at this story as showing the importance of being careful about the vows we make. 

 

UNLESS her life was redeemed with the sacrifice of an animal and she was dedicated into lifelong temple service to God. then no law was violated, and no vow was broken. and yet, it was still a personal tragedy in the lives of both the father and the daughter.