around when was christmas actually born?

[lnknprkn]

in one of the christmas carolling songs, it says something about shephards watching their flocks by night, while Jesus was being born in his manger, or something like that

well what the heck would shephards be doing outside in december?

so if shephards were outside while Jesus was being born, when was he really born?

Edited December 25, 2004 by lnknprkn

[Botz]

Hi Inknpkrn

You wrote...

in one of the christmas carolling songs, it says something about shephards watching their flocks by night, while Jesus was being born in his manger, or something like that

well what the heck would shephards be doing outside in december?

so if shephards were outside while Jesus was being born, when was he really born

?

Firstly Christmas carols are not Gospel and some are just sentimental seasonal songs that have a pleasant tune.

Secondly this took place out in Israel and actually December can be a fairly pleasant month in the foothills of Judea where the grass has suddenly sprouted after the hot 8 month summer.

Thirdly Jesus was probably born on the 15th of the Jewish month of Tishri which coincides with the first day of the feast of Tabernacles which would mean He was actually born around September or October...the date December 25th is purely traditional and not historical.

[LOVE SONGS]

I heard that .....it was in the month of September.

I agree with you BOTZ and what you were saying, thanks for the teachings.

LOVE and PEACE to everyone,

[Leonard]

A tractate in the Talmud (an ancient Jewish commentary on the Old Testament), says that Messiah would first be revealed to the shepherds who watched over the sacrificial flocks being fattened up in Bethlehem, before the sheep were herded to Jerusalem for sacrifice.

These particular flocks were DEFINITELY kept in the fields year 'round, and shepherds were paid to watch them. Sooooo, it could have been any time of the year.

Alfred Edersheim in his work THE LIFE AND TIMES OF JESUS THE MESSIAH argues well for a date of about Dec. 25 for Christ's birth.......

[yukon]

I had heard Jesus Birth was around Sept/Oct instead of December.

I am just glad Jesus was born to be our Savior so we could live forever with Him in Heaven. It's kind of nice having someone love us so much!!

Yukon

[other one]

September/October is also what I have read several places. Has to do with John the Baptist's father's duty in the temple. Been too long to remember exactly how it goes.

We are not even told to celebrate his birth as far as I can see.

I have mixed emotions about December 25 for it coincides with a lot of pagan stuff, but so much emphasis is put on the Lord it is very hard for me to even suggest we should stop the Christian celebration of the day.

I have been guilty of that in the past, but think I was wrong to do so. I should have and now do just downplay the pagan stuff and build up on the Jesus part of it.

[nebula]

around when was christmas actually born?

I didn't know Christmas was born?

I just wrote a long reply in another thread (down this page about the mixing of culture and Christianity (related to Christmas ans its origins).

Here is something to consider - does the Bible forbid the use of symbols other than are what given in Scriptures?

[other one]

That's a good question Neb. The early Christians used the fish as a symbol (you may have mention this, I'm not sure) and that isn't in the bible that I am aware of.

Also something else to think about, is that if Christ was born in the later part of September then he would have been conceived during the latter part of December. Also the scripture seems to focus more on Jesus's virgin birth which is in reality talking about virgin conception..... so if the date bothers you, you can think of it being the celebration of His conception rather than his birthday; which is starting to make more sence to me as I write this than I thought possible....

I'm still a bit bothered by all the pagan stuff, but it'll all work out in the end I betja'.

[Leonard]

But Jesus didn't just fulfill the Old Testament prophecies; He fulfilled lots of pagan symbols, signs, and rituals too.

His resurrection took place on the very day of the Spring-time Feast of Ishtar! Ishtar the fertility goddess was celebrated in the Spring for the bringing forth of new life each year, which happens primarily in Spring. How appropriate that the 'new life' of the Resurrection of Christ should take place then. God has never been without a voice among ANY people.

I wouldn't be too worried about 'pagan stuff'; Jesus fulfilled it.

[Ovedya]

Let's face it, the Lord Jesus was not born in Dec. 25th. The Lord was actually probably born sometime between August and September.

I don't celebrate Christmas traditionally because I am not really into outwardly celebrating the display of the Lord's birth - especially at a particular time of the year. The traditional religious significance of the whole nativity thing is just lost on me, quite frankly. But when I ponder the mystery and wonder of the Lord's incarnation I begin to appreciate the eventual sacrifice that the Lord made on my behalf. That appreciation simply cannot be relegated to a specific date on the calendar. It must become our daily appreciation and enjoyment. The Lord's incarnation - his stepping forth out of eternity to inhabit and dwell among mortal men - is truly a mystery which cannot be searched or plumbed. However, this reality has, through the Lord's 3-part process, become our reality, for our appreciation and enjoyment.

Therefore, I believe it is for this reason that we do not know the exact date of the Lord's birth. Had the Lord wanted this date to be of any significance surely He would have commanded it to be recorded and celebrated; just as He did with the Passover, and all the other times of celebration.