Spock Posted July 2, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Many many thanks to those who answered. (Persuaded, Marilyn, argosy, other one, Marv ) I'm reflecting now on everything written. I may get back with more questions or comments when done reflecting. Marilyn, yours hit me the hardest because up until now I've always seen the 200 million as going to fight the antichrist. Hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 2, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Marilyn, Let me start with your first point. Here it is: 1. The Final Kingdom will be Global. Remember Daniel`s great image. (Dan. 2: 31 - 45) It is God`s overview of just the world rulers down through history. The times of the gentiles ruling the world. There has been many, many great empires in history but only 4 World Rulers ruling the world (known world) & we know that there is one more to come - the one with the 10 kings. Spock: I noticed you said "known world" in parenthesis, which tells me the rule was not obviously global (whole world), but only world as was known at that time. Obviously there were people in the Americas and China and India, etc. who were not being ruled by these four empires. So, my way of thinking tells me it was definitely not global for those 4 kingdoms, why make it global for this fifth kingdom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 2, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Hey fellow seekers, I would love your feedback regarding this question. Will the final beast kingdom, I suppose ruled by antichrist, be GLOBAL, meaning world wide? Hi Spock, I believe its not global. Rev 13 says the beast resembles the leopard. From Daniel 7 the leopard is Alexander's kingdom which is a Middle Eastern and Greek Empire, spread from Greece to Turkey, to Afghanistan to Libya, but not including Lebanon and Saudi. Obviously Iraq and Iran are included (feet of a bear, mouth of a lion). This is confirmed in Daniel 11, where we see Moab, Edom, Ammon (Lebanon and Saudi) are excluded from the antichrist's control. Hi Argosy, Great point. I wonder what Marilyn thinks of it. This passage in Daniel 11 does imply not all nations are acquiescing: ...the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood. 41He will also invade the Beautiful Land. Many countries will fall, but Edom, Moab and the leaders of Ammon will be delivered from his hand. 42He will extend his power over many countries; Spock: it says many countries will fall, but it doesn't say all. Like you said argosy, here are 3 countries not bowing to his rule. I'm sure there will be plenty more. Notice, it also says the King of the south and north will battle him. Does he defeat them and take over? It doesn't say here. I suppose Marilyn would say yes. Dunno. Rev 13 says- 1The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. Spock: here it also says the beast had ten horns and seven heads. Now, unless someone can convince me this covers the ENTIRE GLOBE, it appears to me to only cover a region. I know some have said the UN will or has divided the entire world into 10 regions, but I don't buy that because these 10 horns have 7 heads and 10 crowns. Say what?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 2, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Marilyn again, Ok, let's discuss your point 4-the 200 million from the east. You said this- 4. The Great Army - 200 million. These soldiers will kill 1/3rd of mankind, the people who do not worship the A/C & will not take his mark. Some will hide & escape but millions will die. This is not a war as you thought with the A/C against countries who don`t support his agenda, for the whole world goes after the A/C. This is the extermination of individual people throughout the whole world who do not take the mark. Rev 9 says this - 13The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the four horns of the golden altar that is before God. 14It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.” 15And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number. Spock: Marilyn, how do you know this 200 million are human beings? Why can't they be fallen angels that have been bound? And, if they kill 1/3 of mankind, using your logic, they are then killing people who won't bow down to antichrist. One third of all people is a lot of people. Assuming 9 billion people on earth, that means 3 billion people are being killed because they do not wish to serve antichrist. So, how could you say this is GLOBAL rule when one third hate his guts and won't follow him? This is fun....... Bring it sis! I know you will. Spock eating popcorn while patiently waiting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted July 2, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 2, 2014 Spock RE: the 200,000,000 This is the army from the East, so this is not global, it is regional. In essence this army is killing everyone in its way on its move (from China) through Cambodia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Iran to the Euphrates River. And then they will continue on to Armageddon once the Euphrates River is dried up. India's pop. is well over One Billion. Lower China's pop. nears One Billion. This 200 Million army and horses will occupy well over 230 Square Miles in tight formation (not quite horse shoulder to horse shoulder and nose to tail). Or a ribbon of 1/8 of a mile wide by 1800 miles long. One would be able to see them from a space station. In Christ Montana Marv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 2, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,204 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Hi Spock, Well we are looking deeper, very good, & comparing scripture. I will start with the 200, 000 million. It could seem they are demons, but God, as far as I can see shows us when demons are active. Any way let`s look at the number - 1/3rd of mankind. Yes that would be as you said except for the fact that - 1. WW3 will have killed many people. Only I/6th of great army left. (Ez. 39:2) 2. The fourth power (Rev. 6: 8) would be already killing 1/4 of the people of the earth with sword, famine, plagues & wild beasts. 3. The first four trumpet judgments bring forth, hunger, (trees, grass burnt up) death, (people in ships) thirst, (fresh water polluted) murder, (sky darkened) Thus the numbers of humanity will have been greatly reduced by the time the great army kills 1/3. Just read Montana Marv`s comment & that is plausible also. I have to go out today so will answer that very big question re: the make up of the final government, with those beasts, later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 2, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,122 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,852 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted July 2, 2014 I don't understand why we can't just read the word and listen to what it says Rev 13:6-9 7 And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. 8 And all who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. NASB All who dewll on the earth.... Authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.... I don't see how one can rationalize away from that. If you live on planet earth you will be under his authority and if you are not written in the book of life, you will worship him..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENOCH2010 Posted July 3, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 907 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1866 Share Posted July 3, 2014 other one, that wont work for the pre-tribbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted July 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 I don't understand why we can't just read the word and listen to what it says Rev 13:6-9 7 And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them;and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. 8 And all who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. NASBAll who dewll on the earth.... Authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.... I don't see how one can rationalize away from that. If you live on planet earth you will be under his authority and if you are not written in the book of life, you will worship him..... I know for a fact that "all" doesn't always mean all. I did I study on this and trust me, all doesn't always mean all as we know it. You can Trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted July 3, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I don't understand why we can't just read the word and listen to what it says Rev 13:6-9 7 And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. 8 And all who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. NASB All who dewll on the earth.... Authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.... I don't see how one can rationalize away from that. If you live on planet earth you will be under his authority and if you are not written in the book of life, you will worship him..... The United Nations has some (limited) authority over everyone on earth. Certain nations have more sway in the United Nations. I believe his authority over all nations will be a loose and religiously manipulated authority. While he is strutting his stuff in Jerusalem.... the world quietly plans their invasion. In this way the shi-ite Islamic community will appear to appease the Jews and go the west friendly Sunni Islam way. They will use world peace and the Jewish antichrist as mere tools to gather more Jews for the slaughter and giving them time to build up their secretive forces. Then according to Daniel 11 they suddenly surprise the antichrist (who already controls the beautiful land) by this attack from the north and the east. (Turkey/Russia/Iran.. yes maybe China too) This fits in with Joel 2 and Ezekiel 39 which describe this attack from many nations from the north and the east, which causes Israel to repent on the day of the Lord. This is when Jesus intervenes at the second coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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