Revelation 13

[Salty]

 

Let's not forget that the strongest foreshadow of the antichrist was Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who was king of Assyria from 175-164BC. Antiochus defiled the Jewish temple in an "abomination of desolation," which Scripture shows will take place again during the middle of the 70th Week in Daniel 9:27, by the antichrist, who is also called the king of Assyria (Isaiah 10, 14 & Micah 5). Notice where Antiochus is from-Assyria.

Just some random rumblings. if you care to comment on any of them, jump on in.

 

I also agree with this Assyrian connection. I know we are not supposed to adjust our eschatology according to current politics, but its widely known that Jewish western bankers are currently pulling the political strings in the region. They have invested strongly into the Kurdish region of Iraq (northern Iraq) . This area of Iraq has therefore become stable and prosperous with a significant independent military force. There has traditionally been a large Kurdish Jewish population. Its possible that the re-establishment of Kurdistan into a Kurd/Israeli superstate with a Kurdish Jew as leader will be the great compromise the Middle East has been waiting for. Thus 3 horns fall before the little horn. The borders of Israel/Iraq/Syria fall before the new Israeli/Kurd superstate. This is all speculation, but would fit in with an Assyrian (Kurdish) antichrist.

 

 

Problem with that is, would orthodox Jews in Jerusalem recognize a Kurdish-Jew as their Messiah?

 

When the Antichrist title is used, per God's Word it's not just about some person like the past roles of history, this coming Antichrist will be one that the Jews will regard as The Messiah and their king. That means one of the house of David, which narrows the speculation choices way down. And per God's Word the miracles that Antichrist is to do will not fit any previous antichrist role of history either.

[ARGOSY]

 

 

Let's not forget that the strongest foreshadow of the antichrist was Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who was king of Assyria from 175-164BC. Antiochus defiled the Jewish temple in an "abomination of desolation," which Scripture shows will take place again during the middle of the 70th Week in Daniel 9:27, by the antichrist, who is also called the king of Assyria (Isaiah 10, 14 & Micah 5). Notice where Antiochus is from-Assyria.

Just some random rumblings. if you care to comment on any of them, jump on in.

 

I also agree with this Assyrian connection. I know we are not supposed to adjust our eschatology according to current politics, but its widely known that Jewish western bankers are currently pulling the political strings in the region. They have invested strongly into the Kurdish region of Iraq (northern Iraq) . This area of Iraq has therefore become stable and prosperous with a significant independent military force. There has traditionally been a large Kurdish Jewish population. Its possible that the re-establishment of Kurdistan into a Kurd/Israeli superstate with a Kurdish Jew as leader will be the great compromise the Middle East has been waiting for. Thus 3 horns fall before the little horn. The borders of Israel/Iraq/Syria fall before the new Israeli/Kurd superstate. This is all speculation, but would fit in with an Assyrian (Kurdish) antichrist.

 

 

Problem with that is, would orthodox Jews in Jerusalem recognize a Kurdish-Jew as their Messiah?

 

When the Antichrist title is used, per God's Word it's not just about some person like the past roles of history, this coming Antichrist will be one that the Jews will regard as The Messiah and their king. That means one of the house of David, which narrows the speculation choices way down. And per God's Word the miracles that Antichrist is to do will not fit any previous antichrist role of history either.

 

 

I agree with you that the antichrist would be a Jewish leader, but I don't see a problem with a Kurdish Jew being accepted by Jews. Are Jews from Russia, the USA and Europe somehow more Jewish than Jews from northern Iraq?  Don't they all have the same heritage? The Jewish community has been there in Iraq for thousands of years.

[Marilyn C]

Argosy,

 

Can you please tell me where people get this `Jewish Messiah,` Anti-Christ? I`m just looking to see their thinking. Thanks.

[ARGOSY]

Hi Argosy,

 

Specifically how do you see Western Europe crush & trample over the earth? Military, economically, ......?

 

Can you refer to my post 155. Through colonialism. They crushed the earth, and then divided large regions or countries into smaller countries and divided these countries among themselves. In the boardrooms of Europe the borders and control of countries the other side of earth were decided.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Argosy,

 

So true about the dividing up of the world between countries. I do see a major role for the EU developing, but it is not, I believe, the main one.

[ARGOSY]

Argosy,

 

Can you please tell me where people get this `Jewish Messiah,` Anti-Christ? I`m just looking to see their thinking. Thanks.

 

Daniel 11 says he controls the "glorious land". Israel is his region so he certainly wont be attacking Israel during Armageddon, Gog is therefore his enemy.

 

A Messiah is an expected anointed Jewish leader, who is expected to set the Jews free. Jesus warns Jews of the following: 

Matthew 24:4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.

 

 

In the context of the "abomination that causes desolation" (the antichrist in the temple) Jesus says the following about the expected Jewish Messiah to come:

Matthew 24:22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

 

Jesus is obviously referring to the antichrist when he refers to end-times false Jewish leaders, because the antichrist also is known for false deceiving signs and wonders during this same tribulation period referred to by Jesus, as per 2 Thess 2 and Rev 13.

2 Thessalonians 2 also refers to him coming to power in Jerusalem, the place of a kings "crowning" is normally their capital city. Additionally Rev 17 referring to the nature of the final 8th kingdom says its a country that "was , and is not, and is to come. Revelation was written when Israel had just been destroyed (in 70AD). Yet this re-arising of this mystery country was to be expected by Christians (not just prophecy buffs, but a general Christian expectation) and yet shocked the rest of the world.

v8 The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

To me this means that a country that had ceased to exist by the writing of Revelation, would then re-appear to the expectation of the Christian community, but to the astonishment and shock of the rest of the world. I believe only Israel has ever fulfilled this according to the correct tenses uses in the verse (was and is not, and yet will come). Israel is therefore the future 8th kingdom and beast empire in my eyes. I have limited support for the current Israel and Zionism, believing it to be the concept of European Jewish bankers, and looking forward to the repentance of Israel as per Joel 2 and Ezekiel 39 when Israel repents just prior to the second coming.

[ARGOSY]

Hi Argosy,

 

So true about the dividing up of the world between countries. I do see a major role for the EU developing, but it is not, I believe, the main one.

 

I agree with you that the EU's role is not the main one.  I believe Western Europe is the western half of the divided Roman Empire. Daniel 2 lists 3 stages of Rome,  iron, two feet of iron and clay, then ten toes. The two feet are when Rome divided into two empires, Papal Europe and Byzantium Turkey.

 

Those two divisions of Rome will remain in control of the centre of earth (the Middle East) until Jesus comes and crushes the two feet.  Thus Papal Europe and Islamic Turkey will co-operate to create a new ten nation Turkish Union in the Middle East. Israel and the antichrist will be at the centre of this union, with Islam (Istanbul Caliph) and Turkey watching over the union to make sure Islam abides by the peace of the new superstate. Thus Western Europe merely has a supporting role to play in this Israeli/Turkey superstate.

[Spock]

Argosy,

Perhaps Jesus was talking about the "false prophet" - you know, the dude who will perform signs and wonders to support the antichrist, when he made those references in the Olivet discourse about guess what? Don't trust FALSE PROPHETS!!!!!!!!

The antichrist is a different matter. I see Antiochus Epiphines as a type of antichrist. An Assyrian and a gentile.

[ARGOSY]

Argosy,

Perhaps Jesus was talking about the "false prophet" - you know, the dude who will perform signs and wonders to support the antichrist, when he made those references in the Olivet discourse about guess what? Don't trust FALSE PROPHETS!!!!!!!!

The antichrist is a different matter. I see Antiochus Epiphines as a type of antichrist. An Assyrian and a gentile.

 

I see the antichrist in here in the role of false Messiah, not in the role of false prophet:

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetopgo down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. 26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

 

Sure he could be a Gentile, but Jews will surely think he's a Jew, otherwise they would never be deceived into believing he's a Messianic character. Jesus is warning Jews about false Messiahs amidst signs and wonders in context of the abomination. Very "antichrist" in my eyes. As I said previously , I agree with you about the "Assyrian" in the mould of Antiochus. I believe a Kurdish Jew would fit everything, just as the political landscape in Northern Iraq is making a new Kurdistan possible.

[Spock]

Argosy,

I can now see your point, especially verse 24.

Hmmmmmm. Need to ponder some more. (To early in the morning for that......) sigh!